Topic: Cost for Spell Adders and Power Point Adders

[craig]

oh, and the rank requirement isn't trivial.  you'd have to have at least 37 ranks to make a +5 adder (i.e. a minimum of 12th level),  and the casting penalty would be horrendous: 24 ranks of scaling is -120 to the casting roll.  37 skill ranks adds +86, leaving a total of -34.  you'd have to roll a 37 or higher (so approximately 2/3rds chance of succes).

The math looks somewhat suspect here. 24 PPs of scaling is indeed -120. 37 skill ranks is +87
+87 - 120 = -33 to the roll. To make a Utility spell happen, you need 71 or more as a result.

doh!  i subtracted the penalty from 71 (to get 37 as the roll 'target') rather than adding it (to get 104).

i actually thought that seemed a bit easy when i posted but didn't stop to wonder why or check the math.

and, of course, stat bonuses, focus item, and Eloquence talent will also help.

(and, noted: +87 rather than +86).

Anyone who puts 37 skill ranks into this spell deserves a +5 adder.

yep, i agree.  it seems very powerful (and it is), but it is very expensive to develop enough ranks in this spell - 74 development points.  that's a lot for any spell - especially for a spell that's really only going to be used a few times (unless the caster wants to make money on the side by creating adders for other people).

how much is a +5 adder worth?  a high level mage could churn out a few per week (can only cast it on each magestaff once/day but with enough PPs they could make two or more at once).  there probably aren't many people who could afford them, though.

[buddha]

I was wondering what the prices for Spell Adders and Power Point Adders are, I can't fine those anywhere in the books.

Back to the original question.

Anyone have any sensible prices in gold for the adders?? DP cost just does not hold up when the players walk into the magic shop. I was about to look up the prices in my old rolemaster books when i remembered that magic works a bit different in HARP, Spell Adders might be more or less the same, but PP adders are non exsisting in RM as I far as I remember.

I took a quick look in Loot to see if any of the items there had adder effects and if so what their prices were. This is what I found.

The Acen Amulet for 1003 GP is a +4 Spell Adder
The Dovren Amulet for 361 GP is a +1 Spell Adder
the Earring of the Wild for 340 can be a +1 Spell Adder for Rangers

in the Treasure section of the HARP rulebook  I found:
The Torc of Power for 2500 GP is a +3 PP Adder
Zural's Ring for 2000 GP is a +2 PP Adder

There are other items too, but thay have other powers in addittion to the PP/Spell adder effect.
I get the feeling these items are priced more by sticking a finger into the air than looking at a nice little pricing table that was left out of the book.

Any thoughts on this??

[munchy]

No, it means that he would have a -10 modifier without a +1 PP Adder, and that with the PP Adder he only receives a -5 modifier for a 2PP scaling option.

All right, so scaling options can be used but do not give a modification to the spell roll when using a spell adder for that spell. What about the reduction of time? This modification is still added, right?

[Dr_Sage]

Back to the original question.

Anyone have any sensible prices in gold for the adders?? Any thoughts on this??

My opinion: Its completely campaign dependant. Really. You must decide the kind of scenario you are DMing in.

The most important thing to me is: are you ready to take into your campaign economy easy to make in 3 days magic itens? In practical terms there is no limits to how many spell adders a caster could do on a month. The most likely limits would be the common sense and some other house-rule.

Sorry to use a D20 example but here it goes: how guys at Wizards settled this? They have put a XP cost on itens in addition to the gold cost. Basicaly the HARP equivalent would be charge the PC/NPC with a couple of DPs when making permanent magical itens.

This introduces some limits, so the characters would not feel tempted to just become a Mc?Donnalds Style Factory of Mage Staves, and would still be able to make a  few from time to time.

The second way to deal with this without arbitraty prohibitive actions is just make all such spell casting a slow procces that take days instead of seconds (using ritual magic style).

Botton line is: to most campaigns - where magic itens are not a commodity - is inadequate to just make magic itens at will.

Regards friends. =D

[Dr_Sage]

What about the reduction of time? This modification is still added, right?

In fact PP adders are such marvelous things. They indeed reduce all PP costs making spell casting "faster' by eliminating any extra PPs.

Nice example Example:
Using a +2 PP adder and the talent Potency:

Large Fire Bolt

Base cost = 4 +2(for potency) = 6
Scalling to Medium = +2 (covered by PP adder)
Scalling to Large = +2

Total PP cost = 10 - 2 = 8 PPs

So you only need (-10) penalty to cast in 1 round and another (-10) for the 2  extra PPs not covered by the PP adder.   

This is the way I see it. Pls tell me if I am wrong. 

The only thing I worry is that I check if the character is allowed that much scalling (by check the ranks in the skill) before any PP adder effect. So in my game, even if you use some powerfull artifact that is a +30 PP adder you can?t scale up your Fire Bolt if you only have 4 ranks.