Author Topic: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)  (Read 5380 times)

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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2009, 10:06:47 PM »
Yes, and as you said this makes the GM task quite hard (as he can't read in his players' minds but only guess what his players would like him to do). By splitting this task with the players I hope to make running the game easier (leaving the GM with more time to think about other things, like interpreting NPCs or coming up with new ideas for the campaign...) and more fun.
I think it's a lot like giving the players other tasks, like reading crits and attack tables from Arms Law or looking for a specific rule in the manual when it's needed. The GM doesn't lose anything, he just get rid of a demanding task  ;)

Well as I said, I'm not against it, but once you have it so it does what you want it, *deliberately try to blow up your game using it*. Get your players to help. Cos sure as the world, some power gamer out there will get hold of it and, if it's possible to break a game with it, he will. As for using it to delegate GM tasks... well you're right, he can't read his players' minds, but he can talk to them about what they want out of their game and why. And while this sounds like it may be helpful in training a GM to see what his players want.... nonetheless, I think there's really no substitute for flat out askin em.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2009, 05:30:45 AM »
Cos sure as the world, some power gamer out there will get hold of it and, if it's possible to break a game with it, he will.

He would do the same thing even without it, so imho that's not a real problem: some people should just be avoided.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2009, 10:33:54 AM »
Cos sure as the world, some power gamer out there will get hold of it and, if it's possible to break a game with it, he will.

He would do the same thing even without it, so imho that's not a real problem: some people should just be avoided.


Sure he would, that's the point: Don't give people like that any more ammo. And yes, people like that should be avoided. The problem is often a matter of recognizing someone for one of those people before he breaks your game.
Also keep in mind that a lot of people, particularly the inexperienced ones a rule like this would be most useful to, have no foggiest idea how "game breaking" the potential of their actions can be until it's too late.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline Arioch

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2009, 08:53:47 PM »
Could you provide a couple of examples of what you consider game breaking?
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2009, 11:12:34 PM »
Hmmm.... for example, a player who thinks one or more of the skill costs for his profession is unreasonably high. Has a good, reality based, logical argument to support it, too. And he's not a power gamer, he's not trying to break your game. He's a character concept guy who's griping because his skill costs seem "unrealistic".
But if changing his skill costs makes that one profession so powerful relative to the others that no one else wants to play anything else, your game is crippled until you undo the damage done by that ruling.

Example 2: Green-as-grass GM, looks at the system, decides that it's too hard to survive low levels and that treasure is too hard to get, it doesn't look like any fun. Solves the problem quick and easy by making magic items both more common and more powerful. Works well too, very heroic, very high power, high fantasy game.... for about a year, maybe two. Now he has PCs so powerful that nothing short of the Gods can even challenge them, much less defeat them. Once you've whupped butt on the Gods, what's left? The entire game universe is dead, there's no practical solution except to start over.

See what I mean? I suspect more damage is done by GMs and players not thinking things through far enough than by intent. So yeah, rules additions should be as bulletproof as you can get em. Just like combat experience, playtesting the consequences of a rule is something you get just after you need it.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline Arioch

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2009, 11:36:40 PM »
Ok, I agree with example #1 and that's why I posted here my HR, I want to be sure that it doesn't create similar issues. Rules should be playtested a lot for this reason and when I decide to introduce a new one (be it from a book or made up by me) I make sure that everyone at the table knows that we're trying out that rule, to see if it works, if it improves play, etc.
Unfortunately at the moment I won't be able to play any RPG for a while ( :'(), but two groups of friends have agreed to playtest this set of rules so I'm looking forward to hear what they're going to say about it (if someone else likes them and want to try them out I'll be very glad to hear how their games were changed by their introduction)...

Example #2: imho that's not game breaking, GM and players got what they wanted and they enjoyed it so what's the problem? Should they play the same game in the same setting forever? I don't think so, imho it's good to change from time to time.
Obviously I'm not saying that if you like playing longer campaigns, or only in a specific setting you're wrong... only that I don't see anything wrong in shorter games, too.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2009, 01:45:42 AM »
Example #2: imho that's not game breaking, GM and players got what they wanted and they enjoyed it so what's the problem? Should they play the same game in the same setting forever? I don't think so, imho it's good to change from time to time.

Example #2 isn't dependent on setting so much, it's connected to character longevity. The faster a character gains power for a given amount of adventuring, the faster he reaches the point where there's nothing fun the player and GM can do with him, because nothing can challenge him anymore. Just changing the setting won't fix it, cos the character is basically immune to everything the rule system can throw at him. If that has become a trend among your PCs, you'll need all new PCs in an all new setting or to "retire" that PC completely out of existence (not even an NPC). I can't blame a gaming group if they want more than a year or two between worlds, setting creation is a lot of work. If "GM and players got what they wanted", fine. If the GM did any real setting creation in the first place, he probably didn't. If you do series' of one-shots and thus your PCs have no fixed setting in the first place, it's only irritating if players get tired of having to "retire" their high level characters.
Either way, it often leads to "This game has gotten to be a pain", just by a longer path.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline Arioch

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Re: Fate Points HR (warning: long!)
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2009, 06:12:59 AM »
Now I see, I misundertood what you meant in the other post!
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.