Topic: Items of quality and expertise

[Arioch]

High quality tools will help you, but only real experts are able to fully appreciate their potential. For example, a good sword will probably make combat a little easier for everyon who use it, but only an expert swordman will know how to make the most of its balance, sharper edge, etc... The same could be said of any other item.

So I'm thinking of linking item bonuses to the expertise (# of ranks) of the character using them. All items will have a base bonus, which will be the minimum bonus granted to all those using them, and an "expertise" bonus which will show the maximum bonus an expert character can obtain by using them.
The final bonus of an item is equal to Base Bonus + # of ranks of the character using it, with a maximum equal to the Expertise Bonus.

For example, a +5/+15 Sword:
+5 is the Base Bonus, all characters using this sword will get at least a +5 to their OB.
+15 is the Expertise Bonus, the higher bonus the sword will ever have. All characters with 10+ ranks will get this bonus when using it.


What do you think?

[Ecthelion]

a) I doubt that your initial assumption is really true and an average swordsman will really have less benefit than an expert.
b) I prefer the simplicity of a straight +15 bonus.

[Right Wing Wacko]

I agree with Ecthelion...

Arioch,
I can understand your reasoning, but it just seems to be more trouble than it's worth (for our game). However, as always, you are free to do as you wish! As a matter of fact, let us know how it worked out for you...

[DavidKlecker]

For me expertise lies in the number of ranks not in the weapon itself. The weapon's quality as far as I know gets a higher OB due to strength and weight. That is the weapon is stronger and can deliver a bigger punch and the weight is keyed to the individual making it easier for them to wield and fight making them more agile and thus giving them an advantage. Kinda like having a custom bowling ball or tennis racket, etcs. I never go higher than a +30 weapon. Coming straight from Treasure Companion a +30 is either Mithril or Eog and I tend to make Eog a bit more powerful than Mithril. +25 is Mithril and +30 is Eog. (Use Mithril Chart +5 for special creatures). There are other skills that complement the swordsman such as the Combat maneuver skills and Special Attack skills. Also having a Specialization with the sword can make it even more lethal. Example, a Samauri could have a specialization is drawing his Katana for an attack. This is actually a real-life scenerio.

For me, I don't like supplimenting bonuses too much in RM. You have plenty of opportunities to kill your opponent. I never like making it easier. []

[markc]

 In the past I have used a max bonus for items is their skill/2 so if you have a skill of 50 the max bonus you can receive is +25. As was stated by Monk in RMSS the max is generally +30 so if you have just a few ranks often you can use almost any item.
 There did come a time when the group did have a chance to use very high bonus items like in RM2 and it did have a impact there.

 In the system you propose above for RM2 I would maybe do [level bonus total]+ skill ranks+ other bonus, as the formula for max item bonus. That way it works in all the ideas in RM2, RMC or RMX. The other bonus area can be talents or other such mechanics that your game uses or could use.

MDC

[Arioch]

a) I doubt that your initial assumption is really true and an average swordsman will really have less benefit than an expert.

Yeah, this HR is based on certain fiction tropes and is an exaggeration of reality (where, unless a tool is particulary complex, there's really little difference between the benefits gained by an expert and an average person), so it surely doesn't fit all campaings/settings.

In the past I have used a max bonus for items is their skill/2 so if you have a skill of 50 the max bonus you can receive is +25. As was stated by Monk in RMSS the max is generally +30 so if you have just a few ranks often you can use almost any item.

Hmmm, this would be a little simplier, but would mean that people with no ranks will get no bonus at all, I'd prefer to keep a fixed minimum bonus...

[markc]

Arioch,
 In RMSS it is quite common for PC's to have no ranks in a given category or skill and still have a positive bonus to a skill roll. Now as you said everyday people who have stats below 70 will never get a bonus. But as you said above if you do not knnow just what to do with a skill then how do you know what to do with better equipment?

 But you could always just say that people get a min bonus of the item max bonus/5. So a weapon with a bonus of +20 would have a min bonus of +4.

MDC

[Temujin]

Can be done with magical items, by keying the bonus to be less powerful if you're incompetent / wrong profession, etc.

[Dark Schneider]

A character can be expertise with no need of many ranks with talents, we have a talent that gives us +40 OB.

[markc]

 I guess you can also create magic weapons that provide a bonus per level like a level bonus in RM2/C/X. Of course IMO you would also have a max so the bonus does not get out of hand.

MDC

[DavidKlecker]

A character can be expertise with no need of many ranks with talents, we have a talent that gives us +40 OB.

Wow. That's quite the talent. 

[Arioch]

A character can be expertise with no need of many ranks with talents, we have a talent that gives us +40 OB.

IMHO talents reflects natural aptitude more than expertise.

[Dark Schneider]

A character can be expertise with no need of many ranks with talents, we have a talent that gives us +40 OB.

Wow. That's quite the talent. 

What I mean is that exists in character law, not only for us 

IMHO talents reflects natural aptitude more than expertise.

That's right, but the problem is that aptitude is part of "how much good" are you in the area, so the item bonus should be used in skill bonus base instead ranks, more proper (# ranks) for maneuvers and things like those.

But fortunately in RM there is no problem as it is a 100 based system, you can use the number you want to give full bonus, and reduce it for lesser skill bonuses.

i.e. we can use 80 as full item bonus, so if we have +40 in the skill, we use only half. Using 'jumps' in bonus is recommended in +5 increments for easier management.

i.e. (more detailed), using 80 as full item bonus: we have a +15 item, 15/5 = 3 jumps, so 80/2 = 40 (if decimals then round to the nearest 5). Then each +40 we apply another +5, but starting the first +5 at any bonus, as quality items always are better that non-quality ones, for this we use 80/(jumps - 1) to compute the intervals.
In detail (skill bonus interval -> item bonus used): (-infinite)-39 -> +5; 40-79 (+10); 80+ -> +15. If it is easier add +1 to intervals, so the full item bonus is with 81+ and +10 in 41-80.