Topic: Unconsciousness at 0 Hits

[-Dain-]

hi guys,
I would like to get your opinion about the fact of the unconsciousness at 0 concussion Hits. There is perhaps something that i've missed in the rules...

There are many ways to get an injury which leads to a death in XX rounds. But in another dramatic manner, I was thinking about being able to do a RR stamina to stay conscious at negative concussion hits. The character won't be able to do anything (or at -100) and will have to succeed a RR stamina every minute.
The main utility of this is to get more than a few seconds before death and give more room for dramatic events in the adventures.

Of course, as a GM, i can just decide that "this happens". But i think it should be better to make it more understandable with rules.

Thanks

[Arioch]

What's the usefulness of being conscious if you can't do anything?

[-Dain-]

You can still talk, which could be quite useful for the adventure and the Pcs.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Sorry, but I think it adds "clutter", more die rolling, and bookkeeping.
Why not just give the players extra Hits?
Or increase the time before death?

[-Dain-]

Don't be sorry, this is why i ask you for your opinion.

Let's make an example with a character with 50 concussion hits.
It is said that a character is unconscious at 0 concussion hits and start to die at -50.
There is actualy a huge gap between 0 and -50 where he is just supposed to be inconscious.
I was wondering if we can just let the character still be conscious if no injury has occured.
It is more progressive, I think. It's not binary, not all or nothing.

[Cormac Doyle]

I would point out that this is one of the "benefits" of frenzy ... you don't pass out when you go under 0 hits.

Characters who are frenzied die very easily !!!

[munchy]

I would argue that the hits until 0 are quite progressive enough. Afterwards he is unconscious and the system is so nice as to give him a chance to survive even though he is unconscious. I would definitely not allow someone to remain conscious below 0 hit points. That would be too powerful IMHO.

[Thom @ ICE]

Agreed 100%... actually I would even go so far as to play it that once unconscious they continue to move towards death.

The rules call for a negative hits character to slowly heal - I would say a negative hits character continues to lose 1 hit per round until they hit their Constitution stat in negative unless someone uses healing skill or magic to halt the injuries. If the wounds are stabilized, then healing can process at 1 hit per 8 hours according to the book.

[Arioch]

You can still talk, which could be quite useful for the adventure and the Pcs.

I can see very few situation in which this would be really useful (a lone character calling his friends for help, for example...) and they can all be solved in other ways.
So IMHO this would be just an extra rule which adds nothing to the game...

[Right Wing Wacko]

You can still talk, which could be quite useful for the adventure and the Pcs.

I can see very few situation in which this would be really useful (a lone character calling his friends for help, for example...) and they can all be solved in other ways.
So IMHO this would be just an extra rule which adds nothing to the game...

Yeah, kinda my feeling too.
I think what he is describing is more like "stun"...

[Karizma]

I would probably be happily unconscious if I had taken that much of a beating.  If I was conscious, I'd be gasping obscenities.

[Uriel]

You can still talk, which could be quite useful for the adventure and the Pcs.

I can see very few situation in which this would be really useful (a lone character calling his friends for help, for example...) and they can all be solved in other ways.
So IMHO this would be just an extra rule which adds nothing to the game...

I'm not arguing for staying conscious, but one very obvious benefit of the wounded staying able to converse is if they are the one who has the Knowledge regarding, say, the Healing Herbs.
Your Cleric (Or whoever) drops, and the other characters are faced with a bag of smelly herbs, without knowing which are which... Just a thought.

[Karizma]

You can still talk, which could be quite useful for the adventure and the Pcs.

I can see very few situation in which this would be really useful (a lone character calling his friends for help, for example...) and they can all be solved in other ways.
So IMHO this would be just an extra rule which adds nothing to the game...

I'm not arguing for staying conscious, but one very obvious benefit of the wounded staying able to converse is if they are the one who has the Knowledge regarding, say, the Healing Herbs.
Your Cleric (Or whoever) drops, and the other characters are faced with a bag of smelly herbs, without knowing which are which... Just a thought.

Herbcraft is a General Skill.  There is no excuse in my book! 

[Arioch]

I'm not arguing for staying conscious, but one very obvious benefit of the wounded staying able to converse is if they are the one who has the Knowledge regarding, say, the Healing Herbs.
Your Cleric (Or whoever) drops, and the other characters are faced with a bag of smelly herbs, without knowing which are which... Just a thought.

The only healer down and none knows which herb will save him? PCs pick an herb at "random" (spending a fate point to make their herbcraft maneuver) from his bag and... wow! it's exactly the herb needed to bring the cleric back to consciousness!

[jurasketu]

I've always thought it silly that a PC goes from conscious and fighting to unconscious with nothing in between (except the occasional critical hit saying foe is down or something).

Sure, being at zero, sends our hero to the ground unable to FIGHT or cast spells. But why can't our hero make feeble dying gestures, mutter, groan, talk, point, etc? Seems absolutely perfectly reasonable to me. In fact, I've always assumed that unless a critical hit renders the character unconscious, characters downed by hits are, in fact, conscious, just no longer able to concentrate sufficiently to use any skills/spells/items or move beyond a crawl. But that's me...

Robin

[jolt]

But why can't our hero make feeble dying gestures, mutter, groan, talk, point, etc? Seems absolutely perfectly reasonable to me.

"Look, if he was dieing he wouldn't bother to carve AAAAAAAGH; he'd just say it!" 

jolt

[jasonbrisbane]

I've always thought it silly that a PC goes from conscious and fighting to unconscious with nothing in between (except the occasional critical hit saying foe is down or something).

Sure, being at zero, sends our hero to the ground unable to FIGHT or cast spells. But why can't our hero make feeble dying gestures, mutter, groan, talk, point, etc? Seems absolutely perfectly reasonable to me. In fact, I've always assumed that unless a critical hit renders the character unconscious, characters downed by hits are, in fact, conscious, just no longer able to concentrate sufficiently to use any skills/spells/items or move beyond a crawl. But that's me...

Robin

Hi,

Its called wound penalties (-10, -20, -50, -100, etc...) it restricts movement.
Characters have Hit points and Blood loss represents a constant drain on their body (blood loss, broken bones grinding against each other, etc)
Characters always have the chance to say things during combat. Our PC's either make smart comments that fail utterly "Take this you foul beast - uurggh!" (as they get sliced by the "foul beasts" claws!), or they dont say anything at all...

I think you just need to encourage your PC's to roleplay more...

[jurasketu]

I think you just need to encourage your PC's to roleplay more...

Pardon?

[Karizma]

I'm with Jason, insofar as I see Wound Penalties as a sufficient marker for gradual incapacitation.  0 is a strong number.  I say give it some meaning.  I might let them say something that round (the adrenaline keeps them conscious only briefly before they cannot take the pain), but no more than that 2 second blurb.

[jasonbrisbane]

I think you just need to encourage your PC's to roleplay more...

Pardon?

If our PC is have trouble with a bad guy (BG) and has a lot of wound penalties that are increasing then he (usually) full parries and calls out "Healer over here!", or "A little healing guys", or something like that.

If thats a bit slow (or the healer is busy) he might call out "I'm going down guys", or something like that.

Thats our group anyway.

PC's always make dying gestures and comments, - its just that they arent usually very "cool" or Cinematic.
I think that allowing them to take additional action AFTER they have gone down is giving them an extra round or two. If they REALLY Wanted to make a cool Last breath, or Dying curse, then they really should do it before they die, not after....


I DO understand what you are saying but its too much to allow PC's an extra round or two to say/whisper/gurgle/fumble for anything....unless you also acknowledge to the PC's that ALL monsters and NPC's can also do the same thing...

And then introduce Random Curses and Geas's...... <evil GM grin>