Author Topic: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method  (Read 2640 times)

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Offline arakish

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A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« on: April 20, 2014, 08:53:48 AM »
Here is an idea I am working for my world of Onaviu.  Please critique to your heart's content.

Stat Gains/Drops

The below method is free of cost, but MUST be done on every level increase.  Roll d100 and see table below.  You MUST roll for each stat at least once, but may roll in any order.

d100 Roll     Stat Effect
01-03     stat - d5
04-09     stat - d3
10-19     stat - 1
20-81     stat + 0
82-91     stat + 1
92-97     stat + d3
98-00     stat + d5

rmfr
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Offline sulkow82

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 01:55:51 AM »
I can see what you are doing.  Having a d3 role might seem a bit "outside of Rolemaster" because of having to use a set of dice just for that.  However, the basic premise is fantastic.
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Offline arakish

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 07:02:37 AM »
Here is an update I made to my last post.  I did not really like the need for making two rolls for a stat gain/drop.  I spent last night mulling this over and came up with this table.

My basic idea was the 50:50 rule.  50% chance of no change, 50% chance of a gain/drop.  Then decided to use the 50:50 rule for the gain/drop.

Roll     Result
01     -5
02-03     -4
04-08     -3
09-15     -2
16-25     -1
26-75     0
76-85     +1
86-92     +2
93-97     +3
98-99     +4
00     +5

I can see what you are doing.  Having a d3 role might seem a bit "outside of Rolemaster" because of having to use a set of dice just for that.  However, the basic premise is fantastic.

Thanks, Kantron.  Funny how I was thinking the same thing (emphasis above).  As I thought about it, I thought it silly to have two die rolls to determine stat gains/drops.

rmfr
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Offline Hurin

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 11:11:56 AM »
I like the simplicity, and I agree that making a single roll is better than two.

One possible problem I could see is that it is going to take a long time for some temporaries to reach their potentials. Consider a temporary stat that is 25 below its potential. This is going to take a long time on average-- maybe someone who knows statistics better than me can give an exact figure, but I am guessing that it is more than 10 levels at least. I'm not sure if that works for your world, but it would be a bit slow for my game.
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Offline jdale

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 11:25:08 AM »
I like the simplicity, and I agree that making a single roll is better than two.

One possible problem I could see is that it is going to take a long time for some temporaries to reach their potentials. Consider a temporary stat that is 25 below its potential. This is going to take a long time on average-- maybe someone who knows statistics better than me can give an exact figure, but I am guessing that it is more than 10 levels at least. I'm not sure if that works for your world, but it would be a bit slow for my game.

Statistically, the table is balanced with equal gains and losses. Mean stat gain over many levels will equal 0. Changes in effective stat bonus will be somewhat volatile but random for very high and low stats (where small changes in the stat have big effects on the stat bonus) and barely noticeable for average stats. I'm not really sure what the point is. I assume there would be some other mechanism for actual advancement.
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Offline arakish

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 08:02:38 PM »
But, I also offer a method for players to purchase Stat Gains.  Thus, they can roll, and purchase Stat Gains.  This gives the player the opportunity to counteract any stat drop.  I know, dangerous.  However, they are spending DPs to make those stat gains.

As jdale pointed out, I wanted a Gain/Drop method that would balance out.  Although required for each level gain, I wanted it to balance out in the end.  I never liked the method from the original RM and RMC because it offered little to no chance for a stat to drop due to extreme circumstances.  Then again, that is like real life, barring any extremely severe injury.  For example, even to me, it is unbelievable that I have literally broken my back three times and am able to still walk.  However, my agility, quickness, and strength of my legs have suffered.  Currently, I suffer 40% paralysis in my right leg, yet only 10% paralysis in my left leg.  Enough to warrant a permanent reduction in those stats.

The Stat Gain Purchases are based on the RMU method as presented on page 16 Character Law Beta, inset box.

rmfr
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Offline Moostik

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 01:58:43 AM »
This seems to make pcs as likely to suffer as they are to gain from adventuring and experiencing stuff. I'd at least lower the decreases to about half what the increases are, but it seems you'd like to force your players into spending dp's training stats. In that case, the mechanism is simple and possibly very good. Needs extensive testing, though.

There is a notable difference to  the way this system handles temp stats that are already close to their potential or very far from their potential.

The mechanism doesn't really address situations as the one you are mentioning though. If you want stats to suffer from injuries and the like, a separate "stat stress" table is needed. Otherwise you may well have broken your back three times since last level-up, but be just as likely to gain in agility as to drop.

Offline Moostik

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 02:01:53 AM »
(You broke your back three times? Ouch!)

Offline arakish

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2014, 08:41:27 AM »
This seems to make pcs as likely to suffer as they are to gain from adventuring and experiencing stuff. I'd at least lower the decreases to about half what the increases are, but it seems you'd like to force your players into spending dp's training stats. In that case, the mechanism is simple and possibly very good. Needs extensive testing, though.

I was thinking on these lines, but the two players who are helping me develop my world both suggested giving it equal chances to go up or down.  I discussed this with them; thus, we redesigned the table as below.

There is a notable difference to the way this system handles temp stats that are already close to their potential...

The side rule (unwritten until this) is that the addition cannot raise the temp above the pot.  I was also thinking that if the temp and pot are equal and "00" is rolled, then the pot goes up by one and the temp remains until next level.  This would NOT apply if the temp is lower than the pot and a "00" would raise the temp above the pot.

Example: If the temp = 76 and pot = 79 and "00" is rolled, then the temp and pot would be 79.  If the temp and pot are both 79 and "00" is rolled, then the temp = 79 and pot = 80, but would have to wait until next level to have a chance to increase the temp to 80.

...or very far from their potential.

To be wholly honest, I never really liked how the difference of temp-pot could be 20+ and a player can roll to have an increase of 20 to the temp.  Yes, it could happen, but I never truly liked it.  I have always put an upper limit to how much a temp could increase.  I have also provided guidelines where a player could get "free" stat gain/drop rolls, but the character also had to spend several months training that stat without any adventuring.  The character had to spend a minimum of at least 1/3 of a day (to compensate for worlds with longer/shorter days than Earth) training, each and every day.  For instance, if a character's temp Ag is still less than the pot Ag, then they could spend three to six months "training" his Agility and get a "free" stat gain/drop roll on only Agility (or whichever stat).  If s/he rolled a drop for the Agility, then it was ruled the character flubbed his training somehow.  Using these guidelines, the character could "train" only one stat.  However, I have also been thinking of throwing these guidelines out.

I think a rule I will make for temp-pot difference of 20+, then any "gain" rolled is worth 2x the listed value (+2, +4, +6, +8, +10).  However, this will ONLY apply if the temp-pot difference is >=20.  If <=19, then the gain is the listed value.

Roll     Result
01     -5
02     -4
03     -3
04     -2
05     -1
06-70     0
71-85     +1
86-93     +2
94-97     +3
98-99     +4
00     +5




(You broke your back three times? Ouch!)

Ouch! is right.  The first time it happened, I was only 15 years old and it occurred while playing football.  The doctor said my back was broken, but that I would be able to walk again.  I replied that I thought when a person's back was broken, they never walked again.  The doctor replied, "I said your back is broken, stupid <censored expletive>, I never said your spinal cord was severed."  The second time it happened it was badly herniated disks in the same exact location (L4-L5-S1).  The third time it happened was because I was carrying a very heavy load that caused the L4-L5 disk to collapse and severely rupture.  As the doctor put it, "The major problem with this rupture is that the disk imploded into the spinal cord cavity instead of exploding outward."  Seeing the MRI, you could see the spinal cord cavity was less than half its normal size.  It never healed properly and actually ended up killing some of the nerves to my legs, specifically to the right leg.  I was also paralyzed longer the third time than I was the first time.  The first time, I was able to start walking again in about four months.  The third time, my left leg came back in about four months, but my right leg remained paralyzed for about fifteen months.  Even today, I can have a person step on my right foot and not feel it.  It is a funny feeling walking when you can't one of your feet.  As said, my last nerve inductance test shows that my left leg is only 10% paralyzed, but my right leg is 40% paralyzed.  Also makes it difficult, but not impossible, to do my favorite exercise of bike riding.  Thus, I would be willing to bet that my Agility AND Quickness in my legs has dropped by at least 20, if not more.  If nothing else, when it comes to using my legs, I would be willing to bet that my stat bonus suffers a penalty of -20 or more.

However, the biggest thing that keeps me from filing for disability is my attitude: "I refuse to admit that I am handicapped, although I am."

rmfr
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Offline Marrethiel

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2014, 07:50:18 PM »
The only comment I'd say is that when I'm a player and GM, I completely dislike randomisation for stats. I've seen it happen too many times that someone get gimped and therefore frustrated. I remember making a dnd fighter once that had less hit points than the rogue...
The amount of times I've seen one player in a group roll either very high or very low for stats and seeing the annoyance.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 08:24:51 PM »
Personally I don't find that stat gains really provide any drama to the game, so I could really care less about them normally.  I haven't decided to drop them from the system (mainly cause my skill sheet auto-calculates) but I'd be perfectly happy with rolling up stats and them's the ones you got... less tinkering with skill totals when you level.

The only time they drop is when something bad happens to you (not a random leveling die roll) and if just takes time for them to get back to normal.  You can do that with a time period or just use the stat gains each level, just depends on how long between levels in your game imo.
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Offline tulgurth

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 08:41:32 PM »
Since you are looking for a critique I will gladly give you my 2 cents worth.  I do agree with the others as you have made the system very simple with the spread for the die rolls.  You ability to take into account what I saw leaning more towards the RM2 version of Stat gains (I am a RMSS person) with that 50% chance of no gains or drops.  However, I do have ask, How would your system handle age?  Are you applying negative modifiers for the different age categories?

Offline Moostik

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 06:23:04 PM »
On a side note, my game world uses a different custom mechanic as well. I'll allow only two stat gains per level, normally selected based on what skills actions the character have mainly been exercising, or two random stats is some cases. a 10-10- roll (double 0's) will always result in a +1 potential (and +0 temp) in that stat. To avoid only prime stats advancing, I never allow the same stat to gain two levels in a row. In most of my campaigns however, I've allowed the full set of stats to gain upon reaching 5th, 10th, etc level just to even things out.

This isn't a real system, just a practice around existing rules that naturally evolved. The approach was based on the fact most of my players and myself felt it unnatural for that puny, timid, wood elf bard to get sudden boosts in self discipline, constitution, etc. And what exactly made that half-troll gain and get an empathy bonus overnight? I want to make characters deserve these gains and benefits. A part of this philosophy also led to the "Unskilled Maneuver UM100 = 1 free rank" - rule. Practice and eventually you will learn, at least your first rank in the skill.

Offline arakish

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 04:13:45 PM »
However, I do have ask, How would your system handle age?  Are you applying negative modifiers for the different age categories?

Yes, but I have not exactly completed my modifiers for age.  That is still a WIP.

rmfr
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Offline Terisonen

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2014, 09:36:13 AM »
For the sake of simplicity (which there is not many in Rolemaster...) we rapidly get the stat. to the maximum. Less book-keeping, more play. Et voilà!

Offline markc

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 10:51:00 AM »
Terisonen,
 Welcome to the ICE Forums.
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Offline Terisonen

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Re: A New Stat Gain/Drop Method
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2014, 10:56:06 AM »
Terisonen,
 Welcome to the ICE Forums.
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Thank you for the greeting :)