Topic: Targeting ( the Dealy skill, not the magical skill)

[Warl]

Am I reading this right?

Is this skill in addition to the Ambush skill?
Only Targeting adds to the OB/attack roll rather than modifying the Critical directly?

[markc]

Can you give a book and page #?
MDC

[Warl]

This is the SM companion I #9002 ( the 1990 first printing Designer Thomas Arnold )
Page #40

[Warl]

posting pertinent Text for those who don't have that edition.

TARGETING (None) (Offensive Bonus) -
Bonus is added to an attack roll with given
weapon that targeting skill has been developed
for. However, the bonus can only be
added when the target is unaware of the
impending attack, and is either stationary, or
moving slowly in a predictable manner. The
development point cost is the same as the
cost for developing normal weapon skill with
that weapon, but a character's targeting skill
rank for a given weapon may never exceed
his normal skill rank bonus with the same
weapon. Also, the targeting bonus can be
added to a static action maneuver roll when
the firer attempts to hit an inanimate object.

I also not that this can be confusing as the skill has the same name as the Magical skill targeting... Going to have to rename one of them if I keep it.

Also note that Ambush and Sniping also still appear in this book as skills.

[yammahoper]

it essentially simulates using a scope.  we always used the skill to offset range penalties.

[Warl]

Oddly the skill doesn't specify range or melee...

Another semi related question...

What is N-space?

[markc]

N Space should be Normal Space, IIRC the SM2 notations.


After reading the text you provided of the skill I can see why you are confused as after reading the text I have no idea what the skill should be used for besides adding extra OB if the target is unaware or firing at inanimate objects.
 Maybe it is a skill for using scopes? But I am just guessing on that.
 What I would do is see if sniping applies to firearms and energy weapons and not just missile and or throw weapons, if sniping applies only to missile weapons then IMHO targeting should be used as ranged ambush for firearm type weapons.
 Note: IMHO DP are in such short supply in RM2 and SM2 I think cutting the skills or combining them would be the way to go so you might want to look at combining some of them. Also though Ambush is one of the most powerful skills there is and IMHO any type of range ambush can be a real PC killer and as some people will say very very un-fun.
MDC

[TerryTee]

Targeting is used to actually hit a target.
Sniping is used to deliver an even more deadly hit.
Ambush is the same as Sniping, but for melee.

I’d simply use Targeting total modifier as an extra OB given the criteria in the skill description are fulfilled.
Targeting is developed per weapon, while Sniping and Ambush seems to be only one skill that covers all weapons.

To be a good sniper in space master you’d need both Targeting and Sniping. This is somewhat odd, since using Targeting a get a head shot should do the trick, but since any attack consist of two rolls I guess you need two skills. Also, a sniper is reduced to just a regular grunt after the first shot, since both skills require the targets to be unaware.

-Terry

[markc]

  After reading TerryTee's explanation above I would nix the targeting skill in my game unless I used huge range penalties, the reason is that it gives in essence double OB (even if that OB is just used to reduce range penalties it is still over powered).
MDC

[yammahoper]

I like the skill.  Limitations can be placed on it though.  For example, without a spotter, only half bonus can be used.  Scopes can also be rated, say Mark I to Mark XX.  The Markx5 is the maximum bonus that can be used.

Of course, SM arms could be fitted with range finders and wind gage meters (which lasers might not need at all).

[markc]

Yammahoper,
 Are you saying that you need a skill to use the scope?
  Or maybe an option might be; you only get 1/2 or 1/3 the mod if you do not have enough skill.


 The big problem I see again is that Dp are very limited in RM2/SM2 unless you up the DP allowance, which can drastically skew the game it can be a real problem.
MDC 

[yammahoper]

I have never seen the skill skew anything.  It allows one shot, a ballistic puncture crit, not shrapnel.  Against combat armors, only ballistic impact.  With sniping, it is much deadlier, but still only one shot in a round requiring 100% activity against an unaware foe. 

If  a player wants it, I have no problem with it.  If you do not ban it, I doubt it will overwhelm your combat.  Hades, it takes 4-5 levels of development to get any good at it.  Professional snipers are not level one.

And to use a scope at long range in a wind does indeed require skill.

[markc]

Yamma,
 I did not mean to jump down you throat and I hope you did not take it personally.

   What I am trying to say is that should that skill (targeting) not be covered by the profession sniper skill?


 IMHO there a a few skills that can be removed by using the "profession" type skill(s) in RM2/SM2 and that is a good thing and if done then it also makes those skills that are very under utilized a greater value to the game as a whole.
 Each "profession" skill would get its own write up just like other more robust skills in the set. So not just a sentence or two but maybe paragraphs and multiple pages for some of the more complex skills. 
MDC

[yammahoper]

No harm markc. 

Perhaps easiest way would be to rate scopes/sights and automatically reduce range penalty by that amount, then use sniping skill to mod crit?

How do you think sniping skill should work?

Modern scopes and sniping allows for amazing shots.  The Seals shooting Somali pirates on open water with large swells is a great example: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7325633

[intothatdarkness]

I've worked up some sniping rules for modern settings that allow a trained character with a scope to reduce wind modifications at ranges beyond medium (Long and Extreme), reduce the penalties for shots in those same range bands to up to half normal (based on the Sniping skill bonus), and select the target area for their shot (I use crit tables based on Center Mass, Head, and Limb) with an appropriate penalty. Some of those modifications (for wind and range) are 'automatic,' meaning that the character does not have to roll. For the hit location, I use this:

If the shooter is firing normally or has Surprise, she may use up to half of her Sniping skill bonus to adjust the hit location roll. If the shooter has Complete Surprise, she may specify her hit location, ignoring any hit location roll and proceeding directly to the Critical Strike table for the desired location.

[markc]

 I would also fold the sniping skill into the sniper profession as the profession skills are quite expensive compared to other skills in RM, that way the profession skills mean something.
MDC

[Warl]

I would also fold the sniping skill into the sniper profession as the profession skills are quite expensive compared to other skills in RM, that way the profession skills mean something.
MDC

I am not sure what you mean by "fold it into the prosession" and your reference to rm2

I don't know of any professions that have profession specific abilities, unless your talking about spells,.
Even then spells are not totally exclusive.

[markc]

 In RM2 and SM2 are there skills such as Profession:Sailor and Profession:Soldier? (it has been a while since I have looked but I know that they are in RMSS/FRP under the Technical/Trade Profession Category).
MDC

[Warl]

not that I know of By those names no.

There is the sailing skill, But not "Profession: Sailor"

[markc]

 Going back and looking at my combined skill sheet that I made up for ICE a long time ago I see that they map to the "craft" skills in RM2 I did not go throw SM2 but I will check when I have the chance to take a look at my books.
MDC