Topic: Adventure Paths for Shadow World?

[egdcltd]

I was thinking it would be good if we could have some Adventure Paths written for Shadow World. Admittedly, this would be a major project (I won't point out that the Grand Campaign would be an ideal subject for this... okay, I suppose I have pointed it out).

You could possibly even call it an Adventure Path (it is apparently not possible to copyright). On the plus side, a lot of people would understand what that sort of thing meant; on the minus side, they might think it's D&D or Pathfinder (Side Note: A Pathfinder conversion for Shadow World might be popular, as the D20 one is effectively dead).

[RandalThor]

I think that would be a great idea (primarily the adventure path part, see below for more on a Pathfinder conversion), especially if it is done similarly to how Paizo does it: you have the adventures, but you also have a good deal of more detailed information about the area the adventures take place. This makes the "modules" more than just adventures, it makes them sourcebooks with info for both the GMs and players, so both want to purchace them.



Pathfinder Conversion: While I understand it might make ICE/Mjolnir/whatever-company-now-owns-the-property money, I would fear it would take over because it would be more profitable than the RM stuff. Now, of course there is the "dual-stated" method, but I think many gamers are turned off of that as they are probably thinking they are paying extra for stuff they don't want. (Of course, I could be totally wrong.)

[Terry K. Amthor]

I think that would be a great idea (primarily the adventure path part, see below for more on a Pathfinder conversion), especially if it is done similarly to how Paizo does it: you have the adventures, but you also have a good deal of more detailed information about the area the adventures take place. This makes the "modules" more than just adventures, it makes them sourcebooks with info for both the GMs and players, so both want to purchace them.

I'm not sure what exactly distinguishes 'Adventure Path' from an adventure module, but it sounds like Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn is very much like what you are suggesting. I intended it as just a series of adventures, but ended up writing a fair bit of background about the town and environs.

[egdcltd]

The Adventure Paths are actually series of linked modules or adventures - say six or more - coming to a conclusion, with additional world data provided. Here's Paizo's page describing them: http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath

There's a fair amount of content in each adventure; 96 pages in many of Paizo's, which means just under 600 pages for an entire path. I suppose you could also call them campaigns. I don't think there was ever truly anything similar in the old days; maybe TSR's H1-4 series. Or possibly Warhammer's The Enemy Within might be a better example.

[RandalThor]

I think there are a few things that are key* to successful adventure paths (APs):

1. Not too long. They are really mini-campaigns that most can see actually finishing in under a year play time (assuming playing at least once every 2 weeks), so they are not very daunting to both GMs and players.

2. Pre-made connections. While there are many modules that I love, and there have been some trilogies (U1-U3, Saltmarsh series is one of my favorite of all time, and all game systems), hacking connections between modules can be a pain. With these, it is already done.

3. Expanded world information. As mentioned before, each adventure path also opened up a section of the world with more detail, so while you were playing through the adventure you were also learning about the setting. Very cool that, I think.

4. Production quality. Hands down, Paizo has become one of the leaders (if not the leader) in RPG production quality. Pretty maps and pictures (although I am not a fan of their elves - ears are too large/pointy for my tastes), full color, glossy format, even the smaller modules that end up being a mere 15 pages, all contribute to being some very pretty books. I had to force myself to end my AP & module subscription (it was dang near physically painful) when I started to save money to buy a house - even though I NEVER PLAYED/PLAY Pathfinder. I just loved them that much.

I think that Shadow World is prime for such things (adventure/settings combined), and I also believe that the first one should be in Quelbourne, Land of the Silver Mist: you have a very lightly explored frontier area where it is easy to say the PCs have just arrived at (for whatever reason/s) so they don't know this area and will be discovering it as they adventure, hostile races and cults, an ancient city being searched for, etc... In other words, several different peices/parts that can be melded together into an AP. (One of the only things I don't like is that both the Monks of Shaaljin and Rebels of Galtoth were human cults. I preferred to make them into the non-human races from HARP, the Kachenjunga and Wendigo (respectively). I just think that Kulthea should embrace the high-fantasy feel and not try to turn itself into a pseudo-middle-ages fantasy setting.)


*Other than just being attached to a very popular/successful game... 

[egdcltd]

I think that Shadow World is prime for such things (adventure/settings combined), and I also believe that the first one should be in Quelbourne, Land of the Silver Mist: you have a very lightly explored frontier area where it is easy to say the PCs have just arrived at (for whatever reason/s) so they don't know this area and will be discovering it as they adventure, hostile races and cults, an ancient city being searched for, etc... In other words, several different peices/parts that can be melded together into an AP. (One of the only things I don't like is that both the Monks of Shaaljin and Rebels of Galtoth were human cults. I preferred to make them into the non-human races from HARP, the Kachenjunga and Wendigo (respectively). I just think that Kulthea should embrace the high-fantasy feel and not try to turn itself into a pseudo-middle-ages fantasy setting.)

I was thinking the Quelbourne needed an overhaul; I just couldn't think how. That would do it nicely.

[RandalThor]

I also like to think of the Sea Krals as nordic hobgoblins.... let that sink in... yup, nasty pieces of work that make the area a very dangerous one. You never know when one, or more, of their ships will come gliding out of the fog, making the rest of your day seem like a mere possibility.

Dang it! Now I am all interested in delving into that area again! And I am supposed to be getting a Gamma World game going. 

[egdcltd]

So, if turning Quellbourne into an Adventure Path, what would the stages be? I think you'd probably start at Kelfour's Landing and finish in Quellburn (or possibly Trelkinaark), but how to tie them all together?

There are quite a few places and peoples detailed in the supplement, and some rather brief adventure ideas (which mostly rely on details provided earlier), but they lack a common thread.

[egdcltd]

Okay, you could make a common thread to an adventure path around Zenon. Either he has gained access Lord Cleric's Purification Chamber and is manipulating events and groups in the area, or some organisation is trying to get him restored and is doing the same. Player's could start with Kelfour's Landing adventurers, through to the Ice Krals, and finish with a confrontation with Zenon.

[markc]

Idea:
 What if Terry gets some ideas together for a "path" and then send the ideas out for other to flesh out? That way it is SW by Terry and others get to add their 2 cents as well. But then again that may run a foul of the Guild Adventurer Mag product.
MDC 

[RandalThor]

Okay, you could make a common thread to an adventure path around Zenon. Either he has gained access Lord Cleric's Purification Chamber and is manipulating events and groups in the area, or some organisation is trying to get him restored and is doing the same. Player's could start with Kelfour's Landing adventurers, through to the Ice Krals, and finish with a confrontation with Zenon.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking; Zenon really needs to be the "big-bad" in the adventure path. In the middle somewhere, I like the idea of the PCs being diverted to deal with the Spider Cult, though it has nothing to do with the main plot. (Side trek anyone?)

[egdcltd]

Actually, I was wondering if the Spider Cult could be worked into the main thread; they could be one of the groups being manipulated, along with the Destroyers. So, the PCs start out in Kelfour's Landing, deal with some local threats, then move onto some of the other minor places before dealing with the Spider Cult, Destroyers and Ice Krals, finally finishing up in Quellburn.

I think you could weave the existing adventure ides into one plot, but you'd need some other things adding as well.

[Telwyn]

I think there are a few things that are key* to successful adventure paths (APs):

1. Not too long. They are really mini-campaigns that most can see actually finishing in under a year play time (assuming playing at least once every 2 weeks), so they are not very daunting to both GMs and players.

2. Pre-made connections. While there are many modules that I love, and there have been some trilogies (U1-U3, Saltmarsh series is one of my favorite of all time, and all game systems), hacking connections between modules can be a pain. With these, it is already done.

3. Expanded world information. As mentioned before, each adventure path also opened up a section of the world with more detail, so while you were playing through the adventure you were also learning about the setting. Very cool that, I think.

<snip>
*Other than just being attached to a very popular/successful game... 

I'd agree with all of these potential benefits for Adventure Paths. They offer a GM a well-connected and consistent set of adventures, based around a manageable sized area of the world.

I'd suggest they can offer new GM's (to the world or to GM'ing in general) an easier starting point for a new campaign than stand-alone adventures. Likewise for players new to the world the extra focus and detail on a smaller campaign area can help with introducing the setting. As a mostly ready-made campaign they also can be valuable for more experienced but time-pressed GM's.

I've only experienced Pathfinder Adventure Paths as a player but I can see the benefits of playing and running them. 

[RandalThor]

Actually, I was wondering if the Spider Cult could be worked into the main thread; they could be one of the groups being manipulated, along with the Destroyers. So, the PCs start out in Kelfour's Landing, deal with some local threats, then move onto some of the other minor places before dealing with the Spider Cult, Destroyers and Ice Krals, finally finishing up in Quellburn.

I think you could weave the existing adventure ides into one plot, but you'd need some other things adding as well.

Yeah, but I just like the idea of a wrong turn, you know? Not every path the PCs take should lead in the right direction, occasionally they go elsewhere. That's just the procedural cop-show in me talking though.

[egdcltd]

You could set them up as patsies, so that the PCs think they are part of the main plot, but only because misleading information has been fed to the characters to throw them off the trail.

[RandalThor]

You could set them up as patsies, so that the PCs think they are part of the main plot, but only because misleading information has been fed to the characters to throw them off the trail.

That is exactly what I was thinking. But, you don't want it to be a total waste of time, so something good has to come from it. In the case of the Spider Cult, their destruction is a good thing as they are pretty nasty - unless you want the main power there to be too powerful*, then something else could come from it, like the revelation that someone they thought was a friend is in fact working with/for Zenon.


*Which could figure in to another adventure path, when the PCs are tougher.

[egdcltd]

As a preliminary outline (with missing bits) you could have a six part adventure path with a concluding encounter in each part.

1. Kelfour's Landing
2. The Destroyers
3.
4. Hrassk
5. Trelkinaark
6. Defeat Zenon

The entire path could be solely manipulated by Zenon, or he could be being manipulated himself by a group wanting him to regain his knowledge; perhaps the Priests Arnak, or maybe Sulthon Ni'Shaang.

[Old Man]

Adventure paths would be cool. Now we need SW iconic adventurers.

[egdcltd]

Adventure paths would be cool. Now we need SW iconic adventurers.

Misread that repeatedly as adventures.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Adventure paths would be cool. Now we need SW iconic adventurers.

Just curious, you mean characters with pre-created backgrounds like in Grand Campaign?