Topic: Created Elementals from the Fire and Ice Companion

[Dreven1]

Good day all!

I have a player who is now a 5th level Air Elementalist. It is one of the most interesting characters i have seen lately.

Couple of issues developing:
1) According to Fire and Ice, he can have as many elementals summoned as he has level.  So, he can now have FIVE level 1 Air Whisplings around him at all times.  These whisplings have 3 attacks each.  So, he now gets 15 attacks per round in addition to whatever he is doing.  This is not out of control yet as he only really uses one.  What are your thoughts on controlling the number of elementals he can summon and control at once?
I was tossing around the idea of just scaling the single elemental summon increasing the OB, DB, level, hitpoints, etc. for each level the caster progresses until they reach the next elemental level.

2) Secondly, the description of the whispling is not very clear.  IT is a rolling mass of the element that was summoned.  Can he use this to haul things? as a pack mule? to open locks and doors and do other physical stuff an actual human hand could do? Or is it simply a ball of the element used to attack stuff? (this is the way I have been  treating in thus far).

Thanks for the input!
 

[vector]

It's been a long time since I glances at Fire & Ice. So are we talking about the Elemental Summons list, page 26?

If you are looking for advice on how to keep things from getting out of hand, then I say:

Looks like the Elementalist would have to cast Summon Whispling (level 3) and then Control Whispling (level 4). If he summons five whisplings that would be 35 PPs and ten opportunities to suffer some sort of spell failure.

So, first step is to make him roll those SCSMs. Also, 35 PP is a lot to a 5th level caster, so don't be too loose with the spell adder and PP multiplier items anytime soon.

At 5th level those whisplings are going to have to stay close (within 25') or they will be freed from the spell bond. If this happens there is a 50% chance they attack the caster instead of returning to their plane.

How often does he have to release and summon more elementals? In my game if a guy came into most villages/towns/cities surrounded by elementals there would be potential trouble.

As for an air whispling's capabilities...

Without any guidance from the whispling's description, I would rule that they couldn't carry more than a few pounds. (2# per level = 2 pounds, for example). Not a very effective pack mule. Maybe an Earth whispling could be stronger?

The book mentions a whispling forming "pseudo-pods" to attack with, so I would rule that its manipulation is limited. Opening a door if it had a simple latch, but lock picking would be straight out!

Keep in mind, the player may have an "Elemental Summoner" archetype in mind for his character. If that is the case, he does one thing and expects to do it well. If you go above and beyond the rules to nerf the character there could be hard feelings.

[Dreven1]

Good points Vector, thank you for the input.

It is no issue whatsoever to cast them individually over the course of several days. Once mastered they are under the Elementalist's control so power points are not really an issue.

The spacing thing might be a potential issue. I will keep that in mind.

Also, you are VERY correct in keeping the players development in mind.  I never want to nerf them for something allowed.  Having said that, however, I have had to nerf Arcane Companion because it does not appear it was playtested much at ALL.

He does not release and summon many at all.  Once he gets the elemental it just stays by his side unless he attacks or gets attacked by anyone.

Again, he is not abusing it yet... but what do you think about scaling the elemental up in power as the summoner gains in power?  So he could only have one but I up the stats each level?

Thank you for the input!
Jason

[vector]

Hmm, scaling the elemental up in power could be a good way to entice the player towards quality over quantity. After all, numerous elementals may or may not be unbalancing, but so many more combatants will certainly slow down any fight.

Of course, as he advances in the spell list he will be able to summon and bind more powerful elementals. So now you have to balance the up-scaling. For example, you'll want to make sure that a whispling is never better than a type I elemental, the degree of "up-scaling" being equal.

Does he keep the summoned elemantals with him even when he is in inhabited areas? If so, what does the local population think about that?

[Dreven1]

Hey Vector!

I will definitely keep the scaling right below the level of his next Class Elemental (Type I up to 5th and then Type II at 6th, etc.) I also missed the note at the bottom that says only 0.5 of the casters level in elemental levels can they have summoned at once. That helps a ton!

I run a high magic campaign, my players usually have access to Sigil at some point and throughout the Planes in Planescape. They travel to MiddleEarth and Shadow World and even venture into Darksun. Magic is abound! In some areas, they wouldn't think twice about seeing a caster with floating orbs around him... or even lavished in magical items.

Thanks for the input!

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Without any guidance from the whispling's description, I would rule that they couldn't carry more than a few pounds. (2# per level = 2 pounds, for example).

If we consider "Fire and Ice" to be a RMSS reimaging of RM2's "Elemental Companion", then, as written there, "they cannot manipulate, lift, or carry anything that requires more than half a pound of force."
So, yes, definitely "not a very effective pack mule." :p

[Dreven1]

If we consider "Fire and Ice" to be a RMSS reimaging of RM2's "Elemental Companion", then, as written there, "they cannot manipulate, lift, or carry anything that requires more than half a pound of force."
So, yes, definitely "not a very effective pack mule." :p

Excellent response and resource, thank you! I have the old Elemental Companion and will reference this in our game.  Cheers!

[netbat]

Interestingly the F&I listing for lesser elementals states that they stay as long as the caster concentrates or 1 rnd per level whichever is longer. That statement is not in any of the other elemental entity listings. Most of the listings also say the elemental has to keep moving to stay together and that it requires a source of the mundane element(at least for summoning, it is unclear if one needs to keep it around since it says it requires magic to keep it together). Could be some good opportunities there to make things interesting, the movement might be distracting or get in the way sometimes. The source idea could be a weakness as in some mythology, i.e. if you can lift the earth elemental off the ground and break it's connection to it's source it becomes vulnerable or even dispelled. It might not be completely RAW, but might be interesting.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

The source idea could be a weakness as in some mythology, i.e. if you can lift the earth elemental off the ground and break it's connection to it's source it becomes vulnerable or even dispelled. It might not be completely RAW, but might be interesting.

I think it'd make some elements useless, though. A fire elemental that absolutely needs to maintain a connection to a fire would be… way less useful than currently. Or mayhap it'd create a world or anyone would just conjure air elementals since, well, disconnecting one from its source would be rather tricky.

[Majyk]

For any game system, Summoning spells were always something tha bogged down combat.

A good hard and fast rule for all Summoners(PC and NPC) is to only ever allow one being at a time.
Yes, the flavour of some users might diminish but what's good for the PCs is triply as good for the GM to TPK the party with to prove a certain combo is bad for both sides.

YMMV, but that is my XP.

[Dreven1]

For any game system, Summoning spells were always something tha bogged down combat.

According to the way the spell for Wispling summoning (Elemental Summons) is written, the caster can have as many Type I's as she has levels.  So a 10th level caster can have 10 - first level Whisplings.  IF she is an Air Elementalist that Whispling gets 3x attacks per round.  So 10 Whispling's = 30 attacks + caster attacks. Definitely bog down combat...

Gets ridiculous very quickly especially with the open-ended combat rolls

[Majyk]

Wow, yeah!

Let the PC know you do want to make a change to restrict that kind of spell(summoning ones in general) but that it will obviously apply to NPCs, also - which hedges things for the PCs in the long run.

Then nail down any Summoning spell to one creature only.
Your frayed DM nerves will thank you!