Author Topic: Are spell casters popular among your players ?  (Read 5607 times)

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Offline Dragonking11

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2017, 08:34:30 AM »
You really all have a generally good mix of characters

Are your semi spell users generally focusing more on "lowly mundane" skills, in spells or an equal amount of each ?

Offline Peter R

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2017, 12:50:52 PM »
That very much varies from player to player. One player ignores all character rounding skills and only focuses on OB, perceptions, spells and body dev. I try to get players to get use skills to tell a story. If their backstory says they grew up as an urchin then I want to see the skills that showed they grew up on the street. If they are of noble birth then they should have the skills to support that.
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Offline Dragonking11

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 01:31:04 PM »
That very much varies from player to player. One player ignores all character rounding skills and only focuses on OB, perceptions, spells and body dev. I try to get players to get use skills to tell a story. If their backstory says they grew up as an urchin then I want to see the skills that showed they grew up on the street. If they are of noble birth then they should have the skills to support that.

I agree with this. The main difficulty as a GM I think is to put those skills in use in a way that do not seems forced in order to encourage the players to spend DPs on them. The majority of my players also focus on the more combat efficient skills. I'm partially ok with that because I know my group just loves RM tactical combat. Because of that, in that campaign, I don't put too much effort to promote skill diversity.

It may also be that I'm becoming a lazy GM   :-[

Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 02:25:20 PM »
If you want skill diversity to be useful, you have to create adventures allowing them to make use of those skills. When I'm developing adventures I start with a template of sorts, but then make adjustments based on the party's composition. If there's a character with a particular background, I'll put in some opportunities for them to use skills only they have to advance the plot. My players know this, and look for those chances now. There's plenty of combat to be sure, but there are some situations tailored for non-combat skills possessed by certain characters. This is especially true for my non-fantasy games.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 07:40:10 PM »
We're a rather hack and slash group, so combat oriented stuff tends to be focused on.

When I characters in my own setting I'll actually provide some non-combat oriented skills for free based on character histories, which the players create largely based on information provided for the setting.  Due to our play style this won't unbalance anything and can only help in encouraging more non-combat play or, at the very least, explain how the party can function better when left completely to their our resources.

So, instead of a Fighter, Rogue, Paladin, Monk, and Magician they'd end up looking more like a Fighter/Smith, Rogue/Sailor, Paladin/Diplomat, Monk/Healer and maybe Magician/Scholar.
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Offline B Hanson

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2017, 10:00:11 PM »
This thread is interesting! Despite the long accepted arguments of the dominance of pure spell users and the argument that semis were constrained, party makeup (albiet a small sample), it seems like semis are the dominant profession. This calls into question objective feedback on RMU?

In our no-profession game, semi is the default drift so i would argue  that a free-market approach simplifies the process to the eventually result.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2017, 11:07:01 PM »
In the long haul, Pure Arms users tend to dominate at first, then the Pure/Hybrid Casters leave them in the dust, then the Semi's leave them both in the dust.  Eventually everyone gets to a high enough level that it doesn't matter anymore, but that's pretty high (mid 20's or higher maybe?).  Problem is, from what I've seen over the years here, most RM groups don't get beyond the point where the Pure/Hybrid Casters are dominant.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2017, 01:51:50 AM »
I agree, it almost goes in steps of 5 levels. 1st to 5th most problems can be solved at the point of a sword, 6th to 10th your stealth/skills based characters come into their own as adventures become more sophisticated. 11th to 15th your pures come into their own. By 20th the semis start to take over.

I run different rules for different groups and my stripped back no profession based game also has semi as the default option. It is also level-less as character skills improve depending skill usage and training. If we play hack and slash then combat skills dominate but if things take a political aspect then those skills start to improve naturally.

When playing using professions and levels we almost never get to 20th level.
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Offline Dragonking11

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2017, 06:52:33 AM »
Problem is, from what I've seen over the years here, most RM groups don't get beyond the point where the Pure/Hybrid Casters are dominant.

I concur with this ... my own groups never got higher than 8th level.

The party members were constantly changing at that time and we liked to start new characters when the party changed.

I agree, it almost goes in steps of 5 levels. 1st to 5th most problems can be solved at the point of a sword, 6th to 10th your stealth/skills based characters come into their own as adventures become more sophisticated. 11th to 15th your pures come into their own. By 20th the semis start to take over.

That could very well explain why in my case, my original players prefer non spell user professions as they were always in the level range those professions shine over the others

Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2017, 08:18:22 AM »
Are your semi spell users generally focusing more on "lowly mundane" skills, in spells or an equal amount of each ?
I'd guess our semis invest on average 25 DPs per level on spells and the rest goes into skills. Hope that answers your question.

Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2017, 08:48:50 AM »
In the long haul, Pure Arms users tend to dominate at first, then the Pure/Hybrid Casters leave them in the dust, then the Semi's leave them both in the dust.  Eventually everyone gets to a high enough level that it doesn't matter anymore, but that's pretty high (mid 20's or higher maybe?).
Interesting. I would agree that Pure Arms users dominate for the first few levels, but then I would have said its the semis that start dominating. And at high levels the Pure/Hybrid users are strongest. At least in our group it were the Pure/Hybrid users and their powerful spells that sometimes made use retire the group because it became hard to balance adventures for them.

Offline Peter R

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2017, 09:48:38 AM »
In the long haul, Pure Arms users tend to dominate at first, then the Pure/Hybrid Casters leave them in the dust, then the Semi's leave them both in the dust.  Eventually everyone gets to a high enough level that it doesn't matter anymore, but that's pretty high (mid 20's or higher maybe?).
Interesting. I would agree that Pure Arms users dominate for the first few levels, but then I would have said its the semis that start dominating. And at high levels the Pure/Hybrid users are strongest. At least in our group it were the Pure/Hybrid users and their powerful spells that sometimes made use retire the group because it became hard to balance adventures for them.
Brian Hanson is doing a lot of work on adventures for high level parties over on the Rolemasterblog. I don't think it is an easy task balancing groups like that.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2017, 05:27:39 PM »
I don't know if the semis have a power advantage over the pures, but they do have an advantage in terms of story share, because they have something to offer in more situations.

As a semi (nightblade), I'm averaging 3-4 spell list ranks per level. Magic + martial arts + stealth does not leave a lot of points, but I have developed a lot of languages and sense/awareness skills. One paladin is averaging 4 spell list ranks/level and has developed a fair amount of lore and languages (she's a paladin of a goddess of knowledge, so...). The other paladin is more martial with only 2 spell list ranks/level, not a whole lot of skill breadth either.

In the RMU game, the one semi is the party shield wall (the rogue is an archer, and the rest of the party is pure or hybrid casters) so he has had to be very martially focused. A lot of points in adrenal skills, fortitude, footwork, etc. He's developed four spell lists to his level. He does have some ranks in culinary and survival, even a little social awareness, but definitely has to rely on the other party members for knowing stuff. That suits the character, who is a half-orc.
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2017, 05:50:27 PM »
I think the trick with getting spell casters in the party is making sure that they have a chance to shine due to skills as well as spells.   Make sure to use attunement, read runes, power perception or any other magical skills enough that they can be useful beyond their spells.  Something simple like having magically sealed doors that can be attuned to then be opened or clues that can be deciphered with read runes can add a layer of utility to the spell caster while focusing on their core skills too.
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Offline Hurin

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2017, 08:26:16 PM »
Current regular party is:

Rogue
Fighter
Paladin
Druid
Sorcerer

Playtest party is:
Fighter
Sorcerer
Paladin
Mentalist
Nightblade

I used to steer new players towards arms, but the new simplified spellcasting rules should make casters easier.
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Offline Dragonking11

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2017, 07:12:32 AM »
The spell development is very costly at level up. Do you guys use the rules as written for calculating the available DPs or give a bit more ?

In the past, I used the RAW but in my soon to be next campaign, I wanted to try giving a 25% increase of the base DPs to see where it leads.

Offline Sable Wyvern

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2017, 07:33:28 AM »
In the past, I've always used btb DP, sometimes with 40ish additional points for "hobby" skills.

In my upcoming RMSS game, I'm using a flat 80DP, and I've stripped out many redundant skills, or skills required if you want to be the best you can be at a completely different skill, so that there are more than enough to points to become proficient in a reasonable number of key areas and still have enough points to throw around wherever.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2017, 07:56:17 AM »
The spell development is very costly at level up. Do you guys use the rules as written for calculating the available DPs or give a bit more ?

In the past, I used the RAW but in my soon to be next campaign, I wanted to try giving a 25% increase of the base DPs to see where it leads.

We are playing RMU so everyone gets a flat 60.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2017, 08:21:54 AM »
The spell development is very costly at level up. Do you guys use the rules as written for calculating the available DPs or give a bit more ?

In the past, I used the RAW but in my soon to be next campaign, I wanted to try giving a 25% increase of the base DPs to see where it leads.
There are many threads on how many DPs to give out. I think the rule of thumb is the more skills in play then the more DPs you have to give out to compensate. I don't use DPs any more in my preferred game so it is irrelevant. In my RAW game I have not included all the additional skills in the companions so the standard DPs serve well enough.
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Offline Malleable

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Re: Are spell casters popular among your players ?
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2017, 04:42:12 PM »
Our current campaign has:
Wizard
Animist
Bard
Armsman
Ranger
Paladin

Rolemaster casters don't have to be as fragile as other games.  Casters can wear armor to some degree.  Gain HP buffs and decent defensive spells. 
I guess if you put a first level fighter against a first level caster in a standup fight the caster will die quick.  For me, the versatility of casters makes them more fun to play.

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