Topic: RM2 Elemental Ways to RMC...

[eulerkun]

I've recently acquired Spell Law II, and the Warrior Mage just seems incomplete without the 'Elemental Ways' list.

I'd like others' opinions on the suitability of this list to RM Classic.  Offer suggestions to modify it if you think it unsuitable.

Thanks in advance...

[markc]

Can you give a book and page # for Elemental Ways?


MDC

[eulerkun]

Rolemaster Companion 2, P. 74  Second column

[markc]

 IMO, Elemental Ways is way too powerful a list compared to other spell lists in SL. IMO it provides almost every elemental attack spell from SL in one list. Warrior Mages were one of the professions that a lot of GM's and others had problems with as the profession can overpower other professions in the group and kill a game. 


 To modify it I would instead allow the profession to pick a list from the Mage Base Spell Lists or if you have the RMFRP Elemental Companion: Fire and Ice you have other options for Warrior Mages base Elemental spell lists. Also in the RMSS Essence Companion there are other spell lists that are weaker than the base lists as open and closed lists that you can take a look at also.


MDC

[eulerkun]

That is true.  I had a Warrior Mage for a long-running campaign, but I found that the 'Combat Enhancement' list made him more of a threat than 'Elemental Ways'.  Still, there are WAY too many attack spells on it.

I'm thinking of rewriting the list entirely...  Fewer attack spells, all at higher than normal levels, and more utility spells.  Will post when it's done.

[eulerkun]

Here's the revision...

Elemental Ways (Warrior Mage Base)

  1 - Projected Light
  2 - Fog
  3 - Shock Bolt
  4 - Airwall
  5 - Light / Dark
  6 - Water Bolt
  7 - Cracks Call
  8 - Ice Bolt
  9 - Waterwall
10 - Fire Bolt
11 - Earthwall
12 - Wall of Ice
13 - Lightning Bolt
14 - Beacon
15 - Elemental Servant
16 - Stonewall
17 - Chill Metal
18 - Utterdark
19 - Utterlight
20 - Bolt to Ball
25 - Stonewall True
30 - Whirlwind
50 - Bolt to Ball True

1-14,16-19, 25, 30 - All as the spells of the same names on the appropriate Magician Base Lists, with ranges reduced to 50'

15 - As the 'Servant Spirit' spell on the Arcane spell list 'Entity Master', with a duration of 1 round per level

20 - When cast in the round before one of the 'Bolt' spells on this list, causes the affected bolt to explode in a 5' radius ball and affect all targets within that radius.  Resolve the attack on the 'Cold Ball' table, using the appropriate critical type for the affected bolt.

50 - As '20' above, except resolve the attack on the 'Fire Ball' table.

--

Comments and constructive criticism welcome

[markc]

It still seems powerful to be but it might fit well in your game. What does your GM say?


MDC

[PiXeL01]

How about taking a look in Combat Companion and see the choices for the Elemental Warrior (if you have access to that book)

[eulerkun]

I do have Combat Companion, and I _am_ the GM.  Maybe I'll take another shot at revision...  take out some spells and leave empty slots.

[PiXeL01]

The main problem with the Elemental Ways list is that it is the only catch-all element list in existance afaik, making it extremely powerful. All others are divided into individual elements or deal with only two.
Its only problem is that it is a pretty close range list imho. CC deals with the element problem by specializing the warrior mage to a single element only.
I wonder why most Archmages doesnt take it actually ... Have scope-skill and blast away ^^ (in rm2 with RMcomp1 background options).

[Lord Garth]

Yep, RM2 Warrior Mage spell lists are a little over ambitious. Elemental ways is indeed too powerful when compared to the Magician's lists, but also when compared to other spell users. I do like the Elementalist (RMC VII) more in terms of balance an feel.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

There's something called "cost", though, and a bolt is pretty useless without a good directed spell bonus. Cost-wise, the warrior-mage has a 3/6 for directed spell and 2/7 for his primary weapon. To be efficient in all the elements and have some weapon skills, a warrior-mage would need 9x5 + 9 = 54 dev. points... for the skill ranks alone!
So, yeah, a warrior-mage never gets to fully develop most of his elemental bolts anyway, thus never allowing him to be the so powerful character people think he could be.

For my part, as a GM, I stopped making and advising to my players warrior-mages because they have always proven to be quite useless because of their very high skill cost for just about everything.

[dutch206]

My problem with the Combat Companion Elemental Warrior spell lists is that they have access to spells that Magicians don't have.  How come Elemental warriors can turn into an elemental, but Magicians have to summon them? 

It just sounds too powerful for a semi.  Monks, Rangers, and Bards do not have any ability near that powerful.

[PiXeL01]

I think the reason behind that thought is that the Elemental Warrior is based based on the Warrior Mage and the Elementalist Comp7, well maybe.
I think the difference between the two was that the warrior mage used the elements themselves as a weapon (external use) while the elementalist used the characteristics of each element to make himself stronger. (internal use)
I cant recall if one of the options for the Element Form lists was to make them into Magician bast lists as well and I cant answer that because I dont have my book atm.
The Magician could be seen as the same, as "external user" only. To him the elements are just tools and I see nothing wrong with Magicians not having shapechanging spells. It would be more suitable for a "purer" elemental user, which the CC elemental warrior could be seen as a branch of

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

And don't forget that the Elemental Warrior is also focused on a single element, rather than all 6 elements..

As for the Magician - he has 6 base lists and is allowed to choose up to 4 more. And there is an option that allows for him to select his remaining 4 lists other Base Lists.

And even without that option, I would personally be willing to allow a Mage to select that list as a Base List. (not to mention spell lists from the RMFRP Elemental Companion -- those would be very interesting in RMC, I think...)

[eulerkun]

OK.  I officially give up.  Every configuration of spells I've tried comes out _WAY_ too strong.

So I think if a player opts for a Warrior Mage, I'll allow them to learn one element's 'version' of the list as a 'Base' list and others as (probably) Open lists.  Given the 4/* Spell List Acquisition cost, it's a pretty fair compromise from what I'd actually want.

Thanks for all the help!