Author Topic: How does Spell Store works?  (Read 2197 times)

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Offline Arioch

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How does Spell Store works?
« on: September 26, 2010, 04:58:22 AM »
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Spell Store — Caster may cast this spell with any spell he wants to store. The spell to be stored must be cast within one minute after the  Spell Store is cast. The stored spell may then be cast later as an instantaneous spell. The Spell Store spell costs the same number of PPs as the spell that is stored. No other spell may be cast while a spell is stored.

Until now, I've always assumed that a stored spell didn't need a second SCSM when cast as istantaneous: the user makes his casting maneuver when storing the spell and then he can release it as an istantaneous spell without having to actully roll the dice once more.

In this other thread: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=10279.0 Hubbaman gave another interpretation of the spell, which would make it much less powerful:

Are you sure about this? If so, we have used spell store quite wrong... The wording for the spell is "The stored spell may then be cast as en instantaneous spell." So we figured that when you released the spell, you should make a new SCSM, but use the modifiers like it was an inst. spell.

So, what's the correct interpretation? How do you use Spell Store??
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 07:30:22 AM »
You have to actually cast the spell when you store it -- having to cast it a second time would defeat the whole purpose of storing it (which also prevents you from casting other spells while this one is stored).

the only reason to require a second SCSM would be if conditions have changed (i.e. you are now wearing armor).

Officially -- no second SCSM is normally required.

Offline Old Man

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 09:23:20 AM »
You have to actually cast the spell when you store it -- having to cast it a second time would defeat the whole purpose of storing it (which also prevents you from casting other spells while this one is stored).

Are spell mastery rolls required at the time of storing or at the time of casting? (Say if I wanted to extend the spell to two target...)

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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 09:29:42 AM »
Are spell mastery rolls required at the time of storing or at the time of casting? (Say if I wanted to extend the spell to two target...)

You cast it WHEN you store it. You are essentially holding the spell's magical matrix, not releasing it (so that it can form the spell effect). The only bit missing from that matrix is the "targeting" information - which is supplied as the spell is released.

Therefore, however you cast it WHEN you store it, is how it will resolve when you release it (which is functionally equivalent to casting an instantaneous spell -- i.e. takes up that much activity percentage).


Offline Kristen Mork

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 10:18:09 AM »
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The only bit missing from that matrix is the "targeting" information

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Therefore, however you cast it WHEN you store it, is how it will resolve when you release it

Rasyr, I don't think this answers the spell mastery question.  One could interpret this as: Spell Mastery for additional targets is resolved when the spell is released.  Or as: Spell Mastery for additional targets must be "built into" the spell when it is cast.  I think it's the latter, but a clarification of your intention would be helpful.

Offline Old Man

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 10:29:22 AM »

Aye, I couldn't parse your reply either.

Do I spell master when I put the spell in storage -or- when I release it from storage
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 11:07:45 AM »
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The only bit missing from that matrix is the "targeting" information

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Therefore, however you cast it WHEN you store it, is how it will resolve when you release it

Rasyr, I don't think this answers the spell mastery question.  One could interpret this as: Spell Mastery for additional targets is resolved when the spell is released.  Or as: Spell Mastery for additional targets must be "built into" the spell when it is cast.  I think it's the latter, but a clarification of your intention would be helpful.

The spell mastery for multiple targets would be part of the casting -- not part of the target selection process

Thus, it would be handled when the spell was stored...
And then when the spell was released, the caster would select 2 targets instead of 1

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 11:30:04 AM »
You have to actually cast the spell when you store it -- having to cast it a second time would defeat the whole purpose of storing it (which also prevents you from casting other spells while this one is stored).

Untrue. The spell is still quite useful as written. Greg the second level Magician expects to get into combat latter today, so he Spell Stores a Shock Bolt I. It takes two rounds of preparation and one of casting to make it "automatic" -- easily done out of combat. Later, his party is, as expected, in a fight with bandits. Greg is now able to cast his Shock Bolt during the first round of combat without a SCSM (since it now counts as an Instantaneous spell). He also has 90% of the round left for other activity. Not bad for a spell that can be had as a first level spell off a closed list.

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the only reason to require a second SCSM would be if conditions have changed (i.e. you are now wearing armor).

Officially -- no second SCSM is normally required.

So... when it says you "cast" the spell later, it doesn't actually mean that you "cast" the spell now, but only "release" it? I see a lot of third level Magicians opening up a fight with an instant Cold Ball.
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 11:43:48 AM »
Spell Mastery is one thing, but I wouldn't allow ESF with a stored spell.

Offline Old Man

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 12:20:05 PM »
Spell Mastery is one thing, but I wouldn't allow ESF with a stored spell.

I'm torn about that. Perhaps one has to make 2 ESFs? As the Spell and the Spell Store are both "at risk" at time of casting?
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 12:59:51 AM »
No ESF here. This is a RMSS/FRP question by the board. ESF is a RM2 concept (and presumably a RMC concept as well, but I don't actually know). Since you are allowing that SCSMs (closest RMSS/FRP concept) are possible when storing the spells, I'm not sure what is meant. Did you mean no overcasting? I can't see any reason not to allow an overcast spell to be stored, so long as it is successfully cast at the proper time. Given the PPs lost (for an overcast spell plus same for Spell Store), failure probably means no automatic casting for the rest of the day and forget about the SCSM for another attempt on overcasting.
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Offline providence13

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Re: How does Spell Store works?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 02:09:26 PM »
We've always played that the spell was completely cast, but doesn't have answers to the Target and Range portions of the spell (basically). Pretty much what was said earlier. No roll to release the store.

If our Mage wants to SM a Teleport to affect +1 target, then store it in his Magic Staff, no problem. As it is released, as an Instant for us, he choses the additional target in that 10%Act just like he determines destination. He may use Spell Concentration, Magical Language, Spell Prep, whatever else he can squeeze into his 1 minute of Spell Store time, but not once it stored.

Now, if you're using anything that will "Parry" a spell (different Lists), or Cancel spells, modify RR's vs opponents/attackers, then all that info is set in stone and unalterable while it was being placed into the Spell Store device.


Also, Spell Mastery after casting would open a huge can of worms.
Would anyone allow a Daily X to be Mastered after the fact? I wouldn't.
I would allow Spell Enhancement to modify "the next spell cast", which could be from a store.

For us, it mattered when the PP "ping" happened for Power Perception/Awareness.
IMHO, armor penalties should be factored in when the spell is cast (right after the Spell Store) and not when it is released from the Store.
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