Author Topic: Of the Power  (Read 3556 times)

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Offline arakish

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Of the Power
« on: February 18, 2012, 11:32:18 PM »
I made a previous post about this; however, instead of resurrecting it, I decided to repost.  This is what I have come up with and desire some constructive criticism.  Thanks.

For those not familiar with the previous posting, what I want to do is to combine spell/power use into one all encompassing skill set.  With the Employment skill, a spell/power user is capable of casting ANY spell s/he think of (formulate).  For example, if a spell/power user can formulate an equivalent spell for a Fire Bolt and then a Heal (3-30), then s/he would be able to cast the Fire Bolt at an enemy, then cast the Heal spell/power on a comrade the next round (if capable when considering Spell/Power Classes).  In other words, no matter what, any spell/power user can cast any spell, regardless.

Of the Power

Author's Note: This is still a WIP in development.

Although listed as categories in the Power group, Awareness, Development, Directing, Employment, Manipulation, Mastery, and Scribing are actually the seven skills for wielding Power.

Awareness covers the abilities of detecting, sensing, perceiving, attuning, and reading the power.  In a sense, this skill combines all the skills from the original Power Awareness category in RMFRP.

Development is the same as the skill Power Points Development.  Basically, it is the maximum amount of power one can use before death.  Unlike regular power usage, if you use all of your power points before recharging, you die.

Directing combines all the Directed Spells skill for each "bolt" spell into one skill, much like Power Awareness does.

Employment determines the maximum magnitude of Power able to be wielded.  Essentially, this is the maximum level of spell able to be cast.

Manipulation determines the power wielder's ability to shape the spell into the desired effects.  Essentially, this is the effects of the spell (radius, # of targets, AoE, duration, description).

Mastery is a specialization into a specific type of power such as healing, elemental, information, divination, etc.

Scribing is the ability to imbed power into scribing such as glyphs, runes, symbols, and wards.

This allows any user of power to be able to cast any spell they can think of.  In other words, a power user could cast a fire ball spell in one round, then cast a healing spell in the next round.  Essentially, a power user is only limited by imagination or need.

Skill     Stats     Progression     DP Cost
Awareness     Em/In/Pr     Standard     3/3
Development     Em/In/Pr     Special     8/12
Directing     Ag/SD/Ag     Standard     4/8
Employment     none     Limited     8/25
Manipulation     Em/In/Pr/SD     Standard     8/12
Mastery     SD/Me/Re     Combined     10/35
Scribing     SD/Re/Ag     Standard     3/3

Thanks for any feedback and critique.

rmfr
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Offline jdale

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 10:34:24 AM »
How do you envisage Mastery working? Aside from that, it seems like someone with Development and Employment can cast almost any spell. 12 DP per level seems awfully cheap for that. It also seems like it makes casters all kind of the same.

 
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Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 09:55:53 PM »
How do you envisage Mastery working?

Kind of like the skill Spell Mastery except it must be focused into a certain type of spells such as healing, elemental, defensive, etc.  Furthermore, it must be developed separately for each spell types.  This skill will (hopefully) make different spell casters.  For example, one might focus entirely on healing type spells and focus his Mastery into them.  Etc.

Aside from that, it seems like someone with Development and Employment can cast almost any spell. 12 DP per level seems awfully cheap for that. It also seems like it makes casters all kind of the same.

More less true.  The idea is kind of like Earthpower in SRD's Covenant series.  It can be used to blast a mountain, heal a person, resurrect a barren landscape into a fertile grassland/forest, etc.  It can also be thought to be like Chris Paolini's Inheritance Cycle where it is the wording of the spell and the thought that creates the spell effects.

I am still thinking of raising the DP costs, but haven't had time to sit and think about it.  Thus, the reason why I am posting to see if any ideas could help.  7734, they couldn't hurt.

Thanks.

rmfr
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Offline VladD

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 01:00:51 AM »
The double cost of 8/25 on employment probably means you can double your level as a mage. Since there are no spell lists to be developed (right?) I'd go with 33 DP in that and cast fireballs at lvl 4, lightning bolts at lvl 5 and Lord mindmastery at lvl 10, starting my own little kingdom...

- How about overcasting?
- How would you calculate the costs for casting spells? Will a lightning bolt cost 10 PP, or is there some different system to keep track of that?
- How would the mastery skill affect overcasting?
- how would mastery skill affect normal casting?
- If the spell caster may use unlimited imagination in his casting, what will be the controls?
- Giving spell casters so much power, how will you keep non casters happy?

These were just from the top of my head, I might have more questions...
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Offline jdale

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 05:16:14 PM »
How do you envisage Mastery working?

Kind of like the skill Spell Mastery except it must be focused into a certain type of spells such as healing, elemental, defensive, etc.  Furthermore, it must be developed separately for each spell types.  This skill will (hopefully) make different spell casters.  For example, one might focus entirely on healing type spells and focus his Mastery into them.  Etc.

So a big part of this is the question of how granular Mastery is. If it is separate for each spell list, that is one extreme. It will discriminate casters into more types and require more expenditure of DP. If there are only 3-6 different types, there will be more similarity between casters and less DP to be spent.
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Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 06:53:40 PM »
Thanks VladD.  Good questions, and some I ain't thought of.  Here are some answers.

The double cost of 8/25 on employment probably means you can double your level as a mage. Since there are no spell lists to be developed (right?) I'd go with 33 DP in that and cast fireballs at lvl 4, lightning bolts at lvl 5 and Lord mindmastery at lvl 10, starting my own little kingdom...

But remember, the DP costs are not set.  I may increase them.  Still debating.  Additionally, that 33 DP would be more than one-third of all your DPs.  Won't have many for other skills needed.

- How about overcasting?

Somewhat differently.  For spells above your level, the first five levels over are tripled in PP cost.  And they keep tripling each set of five.  On Onaviu, if you take yourself to negative PPs, you may die, instead of passing out.

Example: You are 5th level and want to cast an 8th level spell.  It would cost you 14 PP instead of 8 (5 + (3 x 3)).  If you were to cast a 12th level spell, it would cost 38 PP (5 + (5 x 3) + (2 x 9)).  And it just gets worse.

In other words, you can overcast if you want, but keep in mind how much it may cost.  And, there is the ESF to consider...

- How would you calculate the costs for casting spells? Will a lightning bolt cost 10 PP, or is there some different system to keep track of that?

Spells of a level equal to or less than your level will cost 1PP per level of the spell.  Same as for RMFRP, I think.  It has been so long since I used the RM spell RAW.  On our world of Udava (1984-1998), we used a system totally different.

- How would the mastery skill affect overcasting?

It would not.  Mastery effects the caster's ability for creating the spell effects.  The more Mastery skill, the less chance the spell effects may backfire.  Example: If casting a Heal 10 spell which normally heals 10 hits, the caster using Mastery could actually get more healing effect from the spell.  If the caster rolled a result of say 70% on the maneuver table, s/he would only get 70% of the effect (i.e. - heal only 7 hits instead of 10).  However, if the caster rolled a result of say 155%, then the Heal 10 spell would heal 15 hits instead of 10.  I am creating special maneuver tables for the Mastery skill since none in RAW exist to get the effects I want.  Mastery will also work on the range, AOE, #targets, etc. of a spell effect also.  However, I have also made a method where casters can double the range, AOE, #targets by spending PPs.  Also, if the roll is fumbled bad enough, instead of healing hits, the caster may actually cause damage.

- how would mastery skill affect normal casting?

See above.

- If the spell caster may use unlimited imagination in his casting, what will be the controls?

Not totally sure I completely understand this question, but...  If you imagine a spell to kill a person, would it work?  Probably not.  All person's natural survival instinct, regardless of whether they know the spell is being cast or not, would give them one hellacious bonus against something so all-encompassing.  Is that like something you meant?  Also, AOE plays a big part.  If you try to affect too large an area with one spell, you may burn out, which is not nice.  Still working on the effects of burn out.  But they will not be pretty.

- Giving spell casters so much power, how will you keep non casters happy?

Yes.  It takes a minimum of 4 or 5 rounds for a caster to cast a spell/power.  And that is for a spell the caster knows.  For a spell that must be "ad libbed" on the spot, it will take even longer to cast.  Unless the caster has prepared ahead of time and "hangs" some spells equal to SD score divided by 20, rounded down.  Or, the caster can scribe spells on scrolls or in a book for later use.  In other words, it takes time to word the spell and then cast it.  Basically, this could amount to several rounds of armsman combat until the power user is ready to end it.

But remember, that is for a caster who is not prepared.  If prepared, then, ...

Also, should have posted a link to my site that delves a bit deeper into the power.  However, remember that the pages pertaining to the power are somewhat old and have not been updated since about August last year, when first written.  The javascript that lists each page's last modification date is not working properly.  Have to get around to figuring out to get it to work properly.  Or, just get rid of it?  Also, I wanted feedback here so I can get questions/problems answered/fixed before updating the pages.

Of the Power

You will also notice that you can get back to the home page and browse other stuff I have written.  But that is OK.

So a big part of this is the question of how granular Mastery is. If it is separate for each spell list, that is one extreme. It will discriminate casters into more types and require more expenditure of DP. If there are only 3-6 different types, there will be more similarity between casters and less DP to be spent.

True.  But that is the point.  Power is power.  There are no different types of power.  Just different ways of using it.  An animist/druid would focus into using power to aid and use nature.  A sorceror would focus into using power to destroy or pervert what naturally exists.  In a sense, such could be looked at as creating specialized spell lists.  However, since there is only one form of power, it does not prevent an animist from learning control of the elemental force of Earth by creating their own Earth Law list.  In another sense, one could say that a power user is actually an Arcist that can build their own spell lists.

Other examples: The rhadhamaerl and lillianrill in SRDs The Land both use the same power: Earthpower.  However, they have focused their use of the Earthpower into stone and wood, respectively.  Also, read Chris Paolini's "Inheritance Cycle" (the one started by Eragon).  Power is power, or if preferred, magic is magic.  It all depends upon the words and thoughts that create the effects of the power/magic, NOT whether it is Channeling, Essence, Arcane, and the caster is a Cleric, Magician, Arcanist, etc., etc., etc.

It all depends upon how the power user desires their spell to work.  For instance, even if I wanted a Fire Bolt spell, my wording and thoughts can actually call forth a small bullet of magma from within the earth.  Although one could say it is actually an Earth Bolt, it also very, very hot.  Yes, I know, poor example, but it is an example of how I could define a Fire Bolt compared to another's definition actually being a bolt of fire/plasma.  Probably be more accurate to call it Magma Bolt, but as said, it is an example of how different persons could define a spell using the same name.

rmfr
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 06:59:34 PM by arakish »
"Beware those who would deny you access to information, for they already dream themselves your master."
— RMF Runyan in Sci-Fi RPG session (GM); quoted from the PC game SMAC.

Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 11:49:27 PM »
First, thanks for all feedback.  It has been very helpful.

Here is something I just wrote in the last hour.  What think?

Some Philosophical History of How the Power Works

As Franajatal once said, "To have power, one must also have none.  Strictures enable just as much as they inhibit.  Those who may seem to be the most inadequate, actually also seem to be most capable.  Those who suffer no limitations, also seem to suffer from being the most incapable."

Another speech given by Franajatal, when asked to give a detailed description of the Power itself, he is credited as saying, "That which is the smallest is the same as that which is the largest.  And that which is the largest is the same as that which is the smallest."

None have ever been able to decrypt that statement.  Can you?

Franajatal is also credited to saying, "To possess the Ultimate Power, one must also spend a lifetime to realize why they should possess such.  And even Eternity itself may not be long enough to discover why."

There have been some who say that Franajatal, the mightiest and most powerful of all PowerForgers, actually discovered the REASON why none can ever possess the Ultimate Power, and in discovering this REASON, actually achieved possession of the Ultimate Power itself.

However, since Franajatal has never been seen or found for over 65 million years ago, none may know if such philosophical pursuits are even worthy of the time spent pursuing.



Thanks for y'all's valuable time.  Keep the questions and criticisms coming.

rmfr
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 11:57:27 PM by arakish, Reason: forgot to ask for more help »
"Beware those who would deny you access to information, for they already dream themselves your master."
— RMF Runyan in Sci-Fi RPG session (GM); quoted from the PC game SMAC.

Offline yammahoper

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 01:22:22 AM »
...just keep the elves dead.

They still make a good origins of magic and whatnot storyline.  Might even have one or three still lurking around making evil plans.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 07:11:37 AM »
Some Philosophical History of How the Power Works

As Franajatal once said, "To have power, one must also have none.  Strictures enable just as much as they inhibit.  Those who may seem to be the most inadequate, actually also seem to be most capable.  Those who suffer no limitations, also seem to suffer from being the most incapable."

Another speech given by Franajatal, when asked to give a detailed description of the Power itself, he is credited as saying, "That which is the smallest is the same as that which is the largest.  And that which is the largest is the same as that which is the smallest."

None have ever been able to decrypt that statement.  Can you?

"As above, so below." - Hermes Trismegistus  ;)
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Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 10:12:44 AM »
...just keep the elves dead.

But what if they are the saviours?  ;D

Another speech given by Franajatal, when asked to give a detailed description of the Power itself, he is credited as saying, "That which is the smallest is the same as that which is the largest.  And that which is the largest is the same as that which is the smallest."

"As above, so below." - Hermes Trismegistus  ;)

The Tabula Smaragdina is where I got the idea about the smallest-largest.  The rest just came to mind and I wrote it down.

rmfr
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:26:19 AM by arakish, Reason: fixed a quote »
"Beware those who would deny you access to information, for they already dream themselves your master."
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 11:05:50 AM »
...just keep the elves dead.

But what if they are the saviours?  ;D

Especially if they're the saviors. Nothing fosters resentment as quickly or as certainly as being indebted and having no way to pay it off.

 ;)
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Offline JimiSue

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 05:55:20 PM »
Another speech given by Franajatal, when asked to give a detailed description of the Power itself, he is credited as saying, "That which is the smallest is the same as that which is the largest.  And that which is the largest is the same as that which is the smallest."

None have ever been able to decrypt that statement.  Can you?
Is quarks. they are the smallest, and they make up everything since they combine to form protons and neutrons. So what is smallest is also the largest. I don't have my books to hand so not sure on their actual size - it's possible that electrons are smaller than quarks, the massive size of a proton in relation to an electron potentially being to do with the space between the quarks... I don't know enough sub-atomic particle theory to be certain here of how closely the strong nuclear force makes the quarks gather together since to some extend they will be also repelled due to being oppositely charged. :)

As to how that guy knew... well a god must have whispered it to him as a joke in one of his more drug-induced moments of "clarity" :)

Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 07:40:31 PM »
Actually, if you subscribe to string theory and m theory, then the quarks are composed of one-dimensional strings.  Then as you said, the multiverse and the strings are the same.

But,
As to how that guy knew... well a god must have whispered it to him as a joke in one of his more drug-induced moments of "clarity" :)

I like that also.  :wave:

rmfr
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Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 07:41:48 PM »
...just keep the elves dead.

But what if they are the saviours?  ;D

Especially if they're the saviors. Nothing fosters resentment as quickly or as certainly as being indebted and having no way to pay it off.

 ;)

VERRRRY Interesting.  Good point.

rmfr
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Offline JimiSue

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 06:38:20 AM »
Actually, if you subscribe to string theory and m theory, then the quarks are composed of one-dimensional strings.  Then as you said, the multiverse and the strings are the same.
String theory I can buy although until it's provable (or highly likely through observation and experiment) I shall continue to treat it as a hypothesis and theory - which aren't science until they are proven. m-theory sounds a bit too much like mental mmmm... well a not good word for a family forum. I suppose that's why it's called M theory though :) And we all thought it means membrane :)

Offline markc

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 09:00:03 AM »
 I think you might also need a counter magic skill to go with the others.
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Offline JimiSue

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 09:56:54 AM »
This actually seems similar to how Sorcery was done in one of the Runequest versions (v3 I think - not the latest Mongoose version). In that you had a variety of skills - each spell had its own casting skill, and there were some generics like Range, Duration, Intensity, and the always fun Multispell.. If you wanted it to last longer, you threw some points into Duration. If you wanted it to shoot out for miles, you pump up Range. You could use as many skills as you liked to cast a spell, but there was only one roll, and it was the worst of all the skills you used. So a sorceror may have been a whiz at casting powerful Venom spells (a basic damaging spell) - intensity skill 85, Venom at 80 so the roll was 80% chance - but if he had to do stupefaction - intensity at 85, Stupefaction (makes you stand there like a zombie if you fail your resistance) at 22 so the roll was 22% chance - he could be in trouble.

You were limited as to how much you could manipulate a spell by the amount of free INT you had (which was your (2d6+6) INT stat, minus the number of spells you had memorised - and therefore a great incentive to enchant your spells into totems and tattoos and other devices). It actually works pretty well - aside from a generic description of each spell, the parameters were decided by your manipulation skill, and the effect by your imagination (subject to GM interference ;) ) Very simple and easy to use. And fun too :)

Offline arakish

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Re: Of the Power
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2012, 09:37:00 AM »
I think you might also need a counter magic skill to go with the others.
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Good suggestion.  Thanks a bunch.

rmfr
"Beware those who would deny you access to information, for they already dream themselves your master."
— RMF Runyan in Sci-Fi RPG session (GM); quoted from the PC game SMAC.