Author Topic: Hirst Arts molds...  (Read 5328 times)

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Offline Cory Magel

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Hirst Arts molds...
« on: May 13, 2014, 12:43:59 AM »
So, I've been browsing these for year and am really, really curious about what kind of materials are best (I've read the various descriptions on their site, but I would like some first hand knowledge for someone who has TRIED various materials).

I'm probably going to have a little more time on my hands for hobby stuff in the not too distant future and, once I have the money to spend on it, would like to have a pretty solid idea of what I want to try first.

I used to play with Lego's extensively and often got rather impressive reactions to my builds (and I'm not talking those "Oh yes, that's wonderful dear, very creative!" comments your parents are obligated to give).  I'd get a new set, build what it was really for, then immediately tear it apart and make my own creations.  Twice I missed the Lego company doing local model builder requiting and just haven't thought about it for years. So, needles to say, the Hirst Arts stuff kinda has the potential to scratch an itch I have...
- Cory Magel

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Offline DragonReborn

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 06:09:32 AM »
Hi Cory,

no prob. I'm more than happy to share some findings with hirst arts. Just like you, I was a devoted LEGO kid and as time progressed I kept building model kits (first plastic, then resin and later pewter) until today. 

The moment I was interested in Hirst Arts came, when I was out on the internetz looking for a way to build - wait for it - a reusable dungeon. Previously, I turned to scrap cardboard package pieces from our IT department. They always had lots of inlays from various electronic stuff. That served actually quite well for my Sci-Fi settings, e.g. having the group invade a bunker, but it was unusable for the fantasy campaign.

What immediately struck me with Hirst Arts was the level of detail given to instructions on their homepage. The whole process seemed pretty tool intense (and believe me, it is until you find your own routine), but the results promised to be the best modular dungeon I could get.

I started out with their "Descent"-project. It looked reasonable simple requiring only two forms. That proved to be a very good decision as it presented me:
- a common size for typical tunnels
- a common method for mounting floor pieces
- a common procedure for prepping and painting

and last but not least:
- a heavy box with my very own dungeon.

I must admit that it took me some time to find the right materials and refine the process to achieve "my" best results. But this was mainly due to the fact that I do not live in the US and the material equivalent to their recommendations has to be found on the German market.

One thing that was most important was the use of Dental plaster. I cannot stress enough how important that is. The hardware stores I visited only had "hobby plaster" which is far too soft. Type IV or V plaster is - at least here - only available at special distributors and hobby stores and is also a lot more exepensive. This might as well be the most prohibitive aspect about the entire production process.

- Common hobby plaster is not good enough to obtain long lasting results (paint it and watch the paint chip off)
- Dental plaster turns perfectly hard once you get the mixture right (1 part water, 3 parts plaster for me) but it is so expensive that you will curse it, when you waste a batch due to ill timing ...

Anyway, I accepted the learning curve and stuck with the process, getting better and better with the results until my first project was completed. Ever since, I have collected some more forms that I will use to build 3D structures of all kinds.

Hirst Arts is not as cheap as it looks when using good material. It takes lots of dental plaster to produce those bricks. They are best fixed to cork plates with expensive Express wood glue. BUT, when you're finished painting them and bring them to life in your game, it is real eye candy.


 



Sebastian Klapdor
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Offline markc

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 09:23:03 AM »
My friend just picked up a 3D printer to do this type of stuff, he has also found all of the renderings some where. I do not know how it has worked out so far but it seems like a good idea for a 3D printer to print this type of stuff, IMHHO.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 12:00:29 PM »
Yeah, I bought some Hirst Arts molded items from someone, and while I can't complain because the price was right (she even did a decent job painting them) they are just to brittle for my tastes.  They are a bit like a porcelain figurine is what I'm compare them to.  The chunky solid pieces are not too bad for very slight rough use, but the more fragile pieces just don't survive much and if you drop any of them on something like a tile or even hard wood floor they can fairly easily break.  All that tells me I want a material that is nearly indestructible.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline jdale

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 01:21:40 PM »
Those pics look great, but your comments about effort and cost just make me think that Dwarven Forge is the way to go. It's virtually unbreakable, already molded, and looks really good.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2014, 04:13:06 PM »
Were you ever a lego junkie? :)  If I was independently wealthy this is one of the things I'd be doing with my time! (Table top set building that is).

I have a lot of Dwarven forge stuff (probably a stack of boxes about 4'6"'-5' feet tall - fortunately when I worked at WotC we'd get put in huge employee orders and get a 30% discount, PALLETS of the stuff would show up) and if just building basic low level single surface or smaller two level constructs I think it probably is the better way to go.  But if I want to build a full on tavern (the full structure), or tower, or castle, I think the Hirst molds are a far better choice overall.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline DragonReborn

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 05:38:14 AM »
Thanks jdale

let me put effort and cost in perspective though.

1. effort
There is a learning curve regarding tools and materials. However, there is a finit amount of time involved that you have to invest. Once you have set up your little "factory", you benefit from a common process. That is quite repetetive and saves time. Getting there is the trick.

2. cost
Same as with effort. You'll loose most money up front. Getting the forms and learning the best process for your results takes the most money. Again, once you're set up, plaster and glue remain the relevant positions.

I would choose Hirst Arts over Dwarven Forge any time because you get to build whatever you set out to do. There is virtually no limit. And, btw, it felt great building something from scratch.



Sebastian Klapdor
MX Bladestorm Dev
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Offline BeggarKing (Thomas)

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2014, 12:35:08 PM »
Wow - I had no idea molds like these existed. Building these look like a lot of fun.
Would love to hear more about efforts doing similar stuff with 3d printing tech.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2014, 12:41:16 PM »
But if I want to build a full on tavern (the full structure), or tower, or castle, I think the Hirst molds are a far better choice overall.

The pictures posted mainly show things like what Dwarven Forge makes, but if the Hirst molds let you do that sort of thing, I see the point.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2014, 12:53:21 PM »
My friend just picked up a 3D printer to do this type of stuff, he has also found all of the renderings some where. I do not know how it has worked out so far but it seems like a good idea for a 3D printer to print this type of stuff, IMHHO.
MDC
Did he pick up one of the "Formlabs" printers?  Those look like they would be a whole lot of fun for a creative person with some 3D drafting program knowledge.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2014, 12:55:48 PM »
The pictures posted mainly show things like what Dwarven Forge makes, but if the Hirst molds let you do that sort of thing, I see the point.
Oh yeah, that'd be the reason I get the Hirst molds, to make full on buildings.  Could be dangerous though... I'm sure I'd end up taking up a lot of space in the house once I started in on building things.  A castle could take up an entire freaking room if you made it fully to scale.  The thought both makes me happy and scares me at the same time.

Here's some examples...
http://www.hirstarts.com/gallery/dawson3.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/892/cathed190.jpg
http://danbecker.info/games/articles/HirstDiceTower/14PaintedView640.jpg

I'd want to build them in a manner that allowed you to take them apart to a degree.  As stand alone pieces they look cool, but I want them to be functional for miniatures, so the tower would need to come apart floor by floor.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline markc

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2014, 03:29:44 PM »
Cory Magel,
 I do not know what he picked up as I have not seen it yet. he bought it so he could make "Dwarven Forge" compatible stuff and action figures. He said he has picked up all of the 3D modeling stuff for "Dwarven Forge" so he can print as he needs it.
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Offline DragonReborn

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 03:55:40 PM »
I looked up some cool Dwarven Forge dungeons. They are definitely nice and when you want to have walls, they do outshine the "Descent" tile set that is shown above. But all the pics I've seen are very similar, even though they got built by different people. And this is where the Hirst Arts forms look like the better choice. Once you find out how these bricks can be combined into arches, hallways, broken or sleek or mixed walls, not one project will be like the other. 

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Offline Warl

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 10:50:25 PM »
Just saw this, and though I know it is a few months old just wanted to add my own 2 cents.

I own some hirst arts molds and I don't use plaster.

I use 2 part plastic resins. I get them from smooth-on Products.

I don't get the fastest setting resin but next to it.. about 10 to 15 minutes to set...

Allows me to Pop out several casts an hour for lost of pieces...

It takes a little practice to get s Near flat side on the pour tops... you usually get a Little concave or a little convex.... but a little sanding and those are no problem.

You end up with a Much Lighter product and much more durable.

Bonus is you can get Resins that are Clear or any other color you like if you want to do transparencies or other special results.
 
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Offline Warl

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2014, 10:55:19 PM »
oh, another bonus to using resin, you don't need a vibrating table to settle the plaster.

I did use the Fastest setting resin once... got one of the sample packs.... it was a Bit more brittle and there for easier to cut/break apart... but also left the pieces a little powdery.. I prefer the 10 to 15 minute set resin.
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Offline DragonReborn

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2014, 12:11:10 AM »
Ok that is ... geeez. It just got myself to accept the drying time. My fastest output (with some help from my better half) was three casts in one hour and they still need 24hrs to finish. I do not use a vibrating table, pounding on the table a couple of times does basically the same thing.

The idea of getting lighter and even faster outputs is tempting.

However, one thing that is good about plaster is the "workability" of the product. I just assembled a couple of terrain pieces for a Bladestorm gaming table. One was a castle ruin in which I wanted to add a couple of walls from Hirst Arts. Using a scew driver, I could easily create a flat foundation in the ground to settle the wall. I don't know if that could be done with resin that easily.

Another question is the clean up. Plaster creates dust and any spill overs can quickly be contained with a wet sponge. What about resin? Isn't that a sticky mess? How do you clean the tools afterwards?




Sebastian Klapdor
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Offline Warl

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Re: Hirst Arts molds...
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 11:06:15 AM »
Quote
However, one thing that is good about plaster is the "workability" of the product. I just assembled a couple of terrain pieces for a Bladestorm gaming table. One was a castle ruin in which I wanted to add a couple of walls from Hirst Arts. Using a scew driver, I could easily create a flat foundation in the ground to settle the wall. I don't know if that could be done with resin that easily.

I am not quiet sure what you mean here. So I don't know how to reply. Are you talking about a specific Terrain feature Hirst mold?

Quote
Another question is the clean up. Plaster creates dust and any spill overs can quickly be contained with a wet sponge. What about resin? Isn't that a sticky mess? How do you clean the tools afterwards?

Clean up for me has been Very simple.
First of all I use either plastic Cups for the measure and mixing processes. That or a Large Plastic or Glass Measuring cup.
a Shishkabob stick  or large craft Popsicle stick to stir with.
use a Newspaper or the like as a Surface cover for your pouring area to catch drips and spills.
Glass plate is sometimes suggested to get a flatter surface on the bottoms ... though this also requires getting the pouring down to a good measure and does require a little trimming of "flashing" when cured.

Once the plastic has semi set, your Pouring cup can be easily cleaned out by "peeling" the excess out of it. Same with any that sticks to your glass flat plate.

One Con to the resin is it does have a shelf Life. At least one part of the resin does. If Left sitting for half a year or more, after initial opening, unused on a shelf, I have had it start to crystallize. 

AS for dust.

No dust when Pouring.
Though if you do chose to Sand them down to thin the blocks, sanding creates a bit of dust. Though i tend to do that out in the Garage.

In some of Our statues we have gotten some "bubbles" on the surface at times, in pocket areas. Time learning the  techniques of pouring in deep molds helps eliminate that and a little 2 part epoxy clay easily fixes such.

The link in my Sig to the Dinner table creations Sight shows some of the statues we make with the resin.
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