Topic: Magical Languages

[GamemasterAlf]

I have seen the other topic on using languages and speaking in general with one small mention of magical languages
The topic seemed to indicate it was only for magical writings and i assume conversation in a magical tongue

I have been looking at this and trying to find detail on it.

Most of the material on the subject I have found is these tongues will somehow influence the magic you are casting if you use the right tongue and that these are the "Power Words"

I can find no other rule or regulation on these

Is anyone aware of rules on the impacts of magical tongues this and where I can find them
OR
what are your home brewed rules on this as i am preparing to put something together in lieu of actual rules

[jdale]

There's an extensive treatment in the Essence Companion, which was for RMSS/RMFRP, not RM2/RMC. I'm not sure for the latter.

[Nightblade42]

Rolemaster Companion I (RoCoI) is your RM2 source on Magical Languages.  I think Spell Users Companion & one part of RoCoIII also touch on the topic - but RoCoI is probably your best bet.

Hope this helps!

Nightblade ->--

[GamemasterAlf]

Thanks  to both of you it did help

Although a bit of a letdown +3/+1 per level bonus.

The earlier material I first looked through describing the benefits of  magical languages would be coming out in other publications hinted at something more.
How hard would it have been to describe a simple bonus structure up front.

I was thinking along the benefits of spell mastery or something similar

Maybe I will make house rules for it anyway

[jdale]

If you wanted to make them more powerful, you could allow a given magical language to be used in place of spell mastery for all applicable spells. That's pretty easy, but a power-up for sure, especially if you allow use of the spells that increase the rate of spell learning. Storywise, it makes the acquisition of such languages more of a focus for all mages.

[Majyk]

We used Magical Languages as a kind of D&D 3e metamagic bonus for spells during our RM2 days.

I don’t have the rules I created so long ago, but the higher the rank in a language, the bigger the bonus to add to the EAR/BAR and would allow increasing radii/range/targets(usually only by as many feet/rank or targets/3-5 ranks.

The ways to find the higher ranks leant themselves to further adventures and side treks to find manuscripts and rosetta stone-like tablets to learn from.

Darn all the house ruled knowledge lost from moves or purges!
Good luck in your own creations.

[Hurin]

Didn't different magical languages do different things, like reduce the cost of the spell in spell points and such?

[Mordrig]

That is up to the GM, there are 6 options for the GM to select.  Even those may vary depending on the language, so one language may do this, but another do something completely different. 
Personally I like them, but would prefer a change to what language affects what spells.  Some duplicate each other and overlap.

[Hurin]

A nice cleaning up of the languages would definitely be helpful. Perhaps as a Guild Companion or RMBlog article?

[Nightblade42]

For my world of Nytheun, I created a linguistic tree based on realms of power.  There is a base language (used for Arcane spells) that has morphed into four sub-dialects - one for each of realms of power (Essence, Channeling, Mentalism & Elemental).  Each of these realm languages have dialects of their own that are used for individual spell lists, groups of spells (e.g. healing spells) or for each set of professional base lists - sort of Professional Magic Lists (i.e. Monks use the Monk Essence Dialect while Rangers use the Ranger Channeling Dialect).  It's a very linguistic heavy approach to Magic Languages on Nytheun, but it worked for me.  I have a word generator keyed to each of the five major base langauges (Arcane, Essence, Channeling, Mentalism & Elemental) which I can then modify to suit any of the dialects.

As for what use of the language gives the caster, I've always adapted the six RoCoI options depending on the language, as is suggested by the text in RoCoI.  But all the languages provide the benefit of Option 1 (PP cost of 75% for each spell cast using the Language).

Nightblade ->--

[Nightblade42]

A nice cleaning up of the languages would definitely be helpful. Perhaps as a Guild Companion or RMBlog article?

A great idea!

Nightblade ->--

[Mordrig]

Ok, I am going to write out some stuff on this.  New languages to cover perceived gaps.  Modifiers, rules, effects, all that and submit it here.  Give me some time.  Not much, but some.

[Peter R]

Ok, I am going to write out some stuff on this.  New languages to cover perceived gaps.  Modifiers, rules, effects, all that and submit it here.  Give me some time.  Not much, but some.

That would be really interesting to read. BHanson has written something on magical language usage today on the blog. https://www.rolemasterblog.com/current-affairs-thoughts-on-magical-languages-in-rolemaster-and-shadow-world/

[Nightblade42]

I agree with BHanson.  I think using one's skill in the appropriate magic language as a measure of one's skill at casting/learning a spell is a good way to limit the proliferation of spells.  If you only have a kindergarten level use of a magical language, then you should only have a kindergarten level of skill at spell casting.  It makes sense to me.

In regards to gestures - the Druids (the ancient Celtic Priesthood) are said to have used a complex system of gestures in their incantations.  From what I understand, various points on the fingers and palms are linked to specific letters and one is then able to spell out the words of an incantation through touching these points, supposedly adding power to the incantation.  This is a great example of a possible system one could build into any culture or "school of magic" in your world.

Something I may think about for my world of Nytheun…

Nightblade ->--

[jdale]

That adds a limitation on magic. That's desirable for BHanson because it's replacing the profession's role in determining what spells a character has access to. It might be desirable in other games where you want to narrow magical access.

If you don't want to limit magic, you could still make it relevant, for example it could be used in magical research, in performing rituals (for which limitations are probably a good idea), for spell mastery, etc.

As a middle ground, it might be useful for identifying enchanted items (which might need to be marked in the appropriate language during creation), magical glyphs, wards, and symbols, stelae and other magical architecture, for identifying and using runes, and for learning spells from grimoires. The appropriate language might be spoken by very highly magical creatures tied to the appropriate forms of magic. Even if items are not marked in actual writing, a detection/study spell might force magic to manifest as language which the caster then needs to interpret. That language might be clear or it might be full of metaphor and poetic vagueness. ("Ok, I think I understand a carpet that sails like a ship upon the clouds, but what is a wand that is full of summer's grace?")

[Nightblade42]

Good points as well JDale.  Magical Languages as the natural tongues of magical creatures is an interesting idea.  I could see an Archmage having a deep conversation with an Ancient Drake in Iruaric.  I like your ideas as well.  Gives everyone lots of options depending on how prolific magic is in their game/world.

Nightblade ->--

[Fingolfin80]

I use magical languages mostly as a limitation for spell users in which spell they can learn. In my games magic schools or traditions have their own magical languages, usually very cryptic and secret, without knowing it you can't read a magic book so you are unable to learn their spells if you aren't an adept. That's not for very open magic setting, but in mine a mage (or illusionist, mentalist, etc.) is rare, powerful and very jelous of his secrets. Magical languages are very effective in creating this kind of mood.

[B Hanson]

I use magical languages mostly as a limitation for spell users in which spell they can learn. In my games magic schools or traditions have their own magical languages, usually very cryptic and secret, without knowing it you can't read a magic book so you are unable to learn their spells if you aren't an adept. That's not for very open magic setting, but in mine a mage (or illusionist, mentalist, etc.) is rare, powerful and very jelous of his secrets. Magical languages are very effective in creating this kind of mood.

What does this mean? Is there a mechanic beyond ubiquity of magic as a general principle? This is a game, with a rule set, so lets talk that language. Yeah?

[Fingolfin80]

What does this mean? Is there a mechanic beyond ubiquity of magic as a general principle? This is a game, with a rule set, so lets talk that language. Yeah?

Well, there's no need to be harsh. I was just trying to explain how I use magical languages in my games. Simply, you need to know the appropriate magical language to learn spells, and that's all the advantage the use of magical languages gives.
It is an home rule, not RAW, but I don't see how it is not talking about rules.

[Peter R]

What does this mean? Is there a mechanic beyond ubiquity of magic as a general principle? This is a game, with a rule set, so lets talk that language. Yeah?

Well, there's no need to be harsh. I was just trying to explain how I use magical languages in my games. Simply, you need to know the appropriate magical language to learn spells, and that's all the advantage the use of magical languages gives.
It is an home rule, not RAW, but I don't see how it is not talking about rules.

Actually, I think your idea is excellent. When I do move over to RMU exclusively I will adopt Brian's model of magical languages to restrict access to spell lists. One of the things characteristics of my setting is that spell casters have far few lists and therefore a narrower range of spells. The chances of you being able to fly, teleport, cast fireball and lightning bolt is extremely slim. The spells as skills mechanic on the other hand allows for many lists to be learned in parallel, which is not what I want. Magical languages on the other hand would close down the options available to characters until that language could be learned. The DP cost of developing the language alongside the spell list to be a natural break on spell list proliferation.