Topic: Simplified XP system?

[shnar]

One gripe I've always had with RM is how the Xp is doled out. It's a pain to keep track of all the various combat actions/mm actions, etc. Does anyone have a good alternative way to track/give XP for RM?

-shnar

[Marc R]

Tim and Allen worked over the "HARP Simplified XP mechanic" and wrote it into RME.

OTOH I find GM fiat based on their opinion of the session tends to work out fine in most situations.

[Balhirath]

One gripe I've always had with RM is how the Xp is doled out. It's a pain to keep track of all the various combat actions/mm actions, etc. Does anyone have a good alternative way to track/give XP for RM?

-shnar

Yeps. Dont keep track of all the combat actions ect
Give the players a basis number of xp depending on how fast you want them to raise in level. Reward for good roleplay and add the xp value for encounters. Thats it. Ignore MM xp and just about anything else in the book 

I dont care who in the group gave the killing blow, who gave what crit or how many PP people have used. Thats included in the basis number.
I reward players for good ideas and roleplay.

(Besides, I hate bookkeeping. It interfer with the roleplay and I tend to avoid it whenever i can. Hmmm Maybe I'm just Lazy  )

[Cory Magel]

My system? I tell you when to level.

No tracking by player or GM.
Group stays in each others power range.
No tracking by player or GM.
I control the progression of the campaign exactly how I want to.
No tracking by player or GM.
No 'competition' for 'kills' or players acting out of character due to experience hoarding.
Did I mention no tracking by player or GM.

Basically it moves the sessions along faster for variety of reasons.  If I want to give 'On the spot' rewards I give out a Fate Point, or a few DP, or a Stat Gain (even temporarily allowing them over their max - i.e. until the roll it down on stat gains or it's lost some other way, like a drain of some kind, it stays), etc.

[vroomfogle]

My system? I tell you when to level.

Excellent system Cory - that's the way I did it for a long time and my players didn't have any problems with it whatsoever.

Now I do something a little different - I award DPs (and when you reach the total for a level you become the next level) based on time and amount accomplished.    It works well because DP's roughly represent time and energy spent learning or practicing skills and using time as one of the factors prevents the problem of getting better at skills too quickly.

[Skynet]

Now I do something a little different - I award DPs (and when you reach the total for a level you become the next level) based on time and amount accomplished.

Actually, it's a really good idea! Never thought about that. That way, progression can be smooth, almost seamless. Very nice. Reminds me of Savage Worlds, where you gain something (skill, stat, edge, etc.) every 5 points and go up one "level" (from novice to seasoned, etc.) every 20 points.

But since some characters tend to have less DP each level than others, how do you deal with that? Because with the DP awarding system, those with less DP will actually level faster.

And thinking of it, it would also be possible to implement a xp system based on Call of Cthulhu : if you used a skill this session, you could do some kind of roll to determine how many DP you gain in that skill. Or something like that. Kinda like the stat roll. I don't know, that's just my first thoughts on this. Really chaotic. But if someone can figure something out, share it!

[vroomfogle]

Well the problem of varying DP's by character is no longer a problem because I use a static number of DPs.  Though if you kept variable DP's then yeah people with more DP's would level faster.

Here's my basic chart of how to award DPs:


Here's basic premises which I used to generate the plots:
- As you get higher level advancement is slower.
- It takes a human lifetime to go from level 1 to 50 (though keep in mind this is for an adventurer not for normal folk).

To use the curve you look up the average # of DP's gained then the important step is to apply a multiplier from 0.1x to 3x.   Use 0.1x if it's day to day activity, and a larger multiplier such as 3x if there are major events.  This way it still gives incentive to go out questing or what-not.   

This is obviously based heavily on the GM so some won't like it.  But it's worked well for us.

Here's the tweakable excel sheet with the plots for anyone who is interested:
http://www.vroomfogle.com/misc/Level-Advancement.xls

[pastaav]

My system is to give xp based on how much time the player plays and how heroic the character is.

Playing time is good to promote since it makes people come at the scheduled time and stay long. It is also a good idea to not punish the players for making the session fun instead of progressing with the plot. Why heroic actions is good to promote should be obvious, good if the plot progress sometimes.

I give 1000 exp for every hour playing....or rather I hand out hours instead of thousands of exp...makes everything so much simplier. These hours can be exchanged for DP between every session if the players feel they want to take the trouble to do a partial level up.

[Temujin]

I also hand out DP every session rather than experience points.  Not because I don't like the basic system, but because I didn't want to have much bookkeeping to do.  I've also made levels a flat 100 DP regardless of attritbutes to keep players from whoring stats only for DP, and got rid of the second cost for raising skills, keeping only the first one and made it possible to buy more ranks per level as long as ranks don't go above a certain maximum which is derived from level.  I also avoided TP's, even if I like them, because I felt with having a greater flexibility in character development renders them moot and slows things down.

I basically hand down DP based on session lenght, roleplaying, danger and accomplishment.

[shnar]

And thinking of it, it would also be possible to implement a xp system based on Call of Cthulhu : if you used a skill this session, you could do some kind of roll to determine how many DP you gain in that skill. Or something like that. Kinda like the stat roll. I don't know, that's just my first thoughts on this. Really chaotic. But if someone can figure something out, share it!

I mentioned this in another thread. I played a *long* time ago (almost 20 years now) with a system the GM customized for lvl development. Every time you used a skill, you rolled with some mods, and if you succeeded (i.e. 100+) you advanced the skill 1 *point* (not one rank). You were limited to the number of times you could try this roll (I think it was once a week per skill for static, unless in combat, then once per combat session). Body Development advanced the same way. If you took damage in combat or at any time (i.e. used the bodydev skill), then at the end of the combat session, you would roll to see if it advanced.

The forumula I think was:
  50 + OpenEnded + StatBonus - CurrentSkill >= 100

And I think it was 50 (it might have been 100). This way, the closer and closer you got to 100, the harder it was to advance in the skill (and near impossible once you got over 100). There was skill degredation as well, if your total was less then 0, then you lost a point.

He also allowed 3 free "rolls" each ingame-month, representing things you were practicing/doing during the month that you didn't really do with the group. To keep "levels" in the game (which was needed for statgain rolls and resistance rolls) the rule was every 5 BodyDev earned was one level.  The only thing I don't remember was how he handled spell lists with this system (non of us were magic users IIRC).

I'm thinking about starting a new campaign set in Tolkien's world with RMC, maybe I'll try this XP system and report back...

-shnar

[Skynet]

I also hand out DP every session rather than experience points. I've also made levels a flat 100 DP regardless of attritbutes to keep players from whoring stats only for DP, and got rid of the second cost for raising skills, keeping only the first one and made it possible to buy more ranks per level as long as ranks don't go above a certain maximum which is derived from level.

I like this, Temujin. Very simple and intuitive compared to the original XP system.

Every time you used a skill, you rolled with some mods, and if you succeeded (i.e. 100+) you advanced the skill 1 *point* (not one rank). You were limited to the number of times you could try this roll (I think it was once a week per skill for static, unless in combat, then once per combat session). Body Development advanced the same way.

This is also very interesting. That exactly what I meant when I was referring to Call of Cthulhu. I you use it again, do share, please!

[lev_lafayette]

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet or anything.... :-)

Rolemaster Companion VI had a simplified experienced system by which the GM determined the experience of the "day" the character had in comparison to normal human activity. A "medium" day was worth 50 experience points, an "easy" day was worth about 12 (average for Elves), and an "absurd" day was worth 1500 ep.

It also meant that a character would gain about 2 levels every 3 years, assuming 5 normal days a week and a couple of easy days.

[Rivstyx]

My system? I tell you when to level.

Excellent system Cory - that's the way I did it for a long time and my players didn't have any problems with it whatsoever.

Now I do something a little different - I award DPs (and when you reach the total for a level you become the next level) based on time and amount accomplished.    It works well because DP's roughly represent time and energy spent learning or practicing skills and using time as one of the factors prevents the problem of getting better at skills too quickly.

I like that idea.  You could also apply the DPs only to skills they actually used but that would require more bookkeeping

[arakish]

I only skimmed this section.

But I give XP depending on how well the characters are role played.  I don't really care how monsters you killed, although this helps.  Since it is a ROLE PLAYING game, how well did you role play your character, is the question I ask.

rmfr

[lev_lafayette]

I only skimmed this section.

But I give XP depending on how well the characters are role played.  I don't really care how monsters you killed, although this helps.  Since it is a ROLE PLAYING game, how well did you role play your character, is the question I ask.

See, I give different rewards (and punishments) for good roleplaying. I give the players plot buy-in, even if it is as trivial as "Fate Points" for die re-rolls.

I don't think roleplaying should provide characters advances in their abilities. Just because a character has a good roleplayer, the character suddenly doesn't become more competent with swords. Using a sword is what makes a character good with swords!

If experience points depend on the players roleplaying one may also ask how do NPCs advance levels? ;-)

[Ecthelion]

I only skimmed this section.

But I give XP depending on how well the characters are role played.  I don't really care how monsters you killed, although this helps.  Since it is a ROLE PLAYING game, how well did you role play your character, is the question I ask.

rmfr

And a new player, who is not yet such a well-versed role player, has to endure that his characters advance much slower??? This role playing-based approach may work well for your group for some reason, but in general this is IMO a bad idea.

HARP's goal-based XP system still seems a quick and fair XP system to me, better than this approach or RM's more complex XP system.

[Arioch]

Tim and Allen worked over the "HARP Simplified XP mechanic" and wrote it into RME.

Interesting, I've done something similar but I would like to see that. Do you think that it is possible to post it on these boards (or in the Vault) or do I have to buy RME? 

[shnar]

Download HARPLite, it's listed there (the Major/Minor Party Goals on page 86).

-shnar

[Arioch]

I meant, the RM-conversion. Just to see if it is similar to the one I made...

[shnar]

It's nearly identical. The only difference is that RME doesn't make a distinction between Personal and Party goal, they just have Major/Minor Goals. Also, RME's points are higher by 5x the amount (I'm guessing because the levels between RME and HARP vary by that much). Otherwise, the system is identical.

-shnar