Topic: Removing Profession Bonus

[giulio.trimarco]

Hi there.

I'm starting a very small (3 session) adventure using RMC.
Set in the middle ages (1250 AD) every PC is a member of a Holy, military order (Templar, Teutonic, Altopascio, etc).

I never liked the profession bonus, and I was thinking of removing it.
Do you believe that removing this bonus is too unbalancing?

EDIT:
Every PC will start at 20th level.

[bottg]

Probably not in this case as all characters will be fighters i assume.   The profession bonus mainly distinguishes between professions.  One thing to bear in mind at 20th lvl though, is that all of the characters will have 60 less OB than they would otherwise have had.....

[Maldraedior]

Removing the bonus shouldn't be a problem at all. At lvl 20, the characters should be more than able to handle themselves. Atleast in a "real world" setting.
It would also reflect that they are not from a very hostile world, like most fantasy worlds really are... demons and dragons etc.
They might get their butts kicked if they met some of the nasty demons, but if I remember my history lessons correctly, they weren't really around in 1250AD

As long as the same rules apply to the NPCs, it might actually be a good idea for this setting. In a more classical fantasy setting I'd never remove them though.

[giulio.trimarco]

Thanks.

In fact the group will be composed of one fighters, one rogue, one thief, one cleric, one healer and a champion.

Now, I wonder... where are the level bonuses for the new profession of the CC?? 

[Dark Schneider]

If removed for all there is no problem, as it is the same for all is balanced, but if you want to fight against creatures from books it is a problem, as those creatures includes profession bonus, your PCs will be in disadvantage.

[giulio.trimarco]

If removed for all there is no problem, as it is the same for all is balanced, but if you want to fight against creatures from books it is a problem, as those creatures includes profession bonus, your PCs will be in disadvantage.

Mumble, mumble... good advice.

It's a gritty adventure.
It is supposed that they will encounter one or two daemons. And they must remember these encounters...

[thrud]

At Lv20 the professional bonus matters... a lot.
Let's look at the warrior.
Lv20@ 2ranks per level -> 42 ranks -> 50+20+20+1= +91 OB for the ranks
+3 per level -> +60 OB.

Yes, I would say it matters quite a bit.

[Winterknight]

After rank 30, even with a +1 per level bonus, that's as much as 2 full levels of skill development.  I think the profession bonus is one of the keys to distinguishing skill in high level characters.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Starting from level 11, the level bonuses are the most important part of a non-spell user development, so I don't think removing them would be a good idea. Just consider this chart, assuming a two-ranks development per level:

• From level 1 to 5, you develop ranks 1 to 10, therefore each rank grants a +5, for a total of +10 per level. Comparatively, the level bonus is +3 or 1/3 level,
• From level 6 to 10, you develop ranks 11 to 20, therefore each rank grants a +2, for a total of +4 per level. Comparatively, the level bonus is +3 or 75% of a level,
• From level 11 to 15, you develop ranks 21 to 30, therefore each rank grants a +1, for a total of +2 per level. Comparatively, the level bonus is +3 or 1.5 levels,
• From level 16 to 20, you develop ranks 31 to 40, therefore each rank grants a +0.5, for a total of +1 per level. Comparatively, the level bonus is +3 or 3 levels.

Comparatively, without his level bonus (not taken the statistic bonus into account), a level 20 has 40 ranks, for a total bonus of +85. With a level bonus, a level 10 has 20 ranks, for a total bonus of +70+30=+100!
Save mayhap for RRs purpose, there's little reason to play characters above level 10 if you remove the level bonuses.

[giulio.trimarco]

Interesting discussion.

I'll open up the details of this mini-campaign  .

As you've seen the classes allowed are about realm of arms and channelling.
I've also thought of limiting spell lists to 10th level.

This is to create a gritty world were PC are very competent individual, but not super-heroes.
OB isn't the only skill that this PC will going to use and in which they need competence.

All in all I can think of allowing the static level bonus.

But for the profession bonus of the new professions in the CC? Were can I find them?

[ictus]

prof bonuses are an option rule as are most of the rules, so you wont break it removing them....

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

This is to create a gritty world were PC are very competent individual, but not super-heroes.
OB isn't the only skill that this PC will going to use and in which they need competence.

But the level bonus intervene in all skills, not just weapon skills. My chart can be applied to all skills, and someone with a +3 in Academic is highly more proficient than someone with a no bonus.

[giulio.trimarco]

Yeah,your right.

So, removing level bonuses to all will lower skill bonuses in all areas,for all professions.
MMM....even more gritty

This way skill bonus progression will not break, even at 50th level.
This is perfect.

[kevinmccollum]

I will point out that even in RM2, level bonuses for combat were NOT optional, they were core. they were the only level bonus in the core system.

[giulio.trimarco]

Thanks to all.

I've decided that I'll remove the prof bonuses. 

[thrud]

Why not start the PC's at lv 10 and keep the level bonuses?
Ah, well... your game, your head that goes on the block...

[giulio.trimarco]

• Because I never understood why a level bonus is needed when a DP cost already account for different skill potential.
• In addition I'de like to have very high-level PCs, without the need of very high level NPC. Since most (all) of the "combat encounters" will be with NPC soldiers, guards, brigands, etc.
• I also account for the "psycological factor".
  I run different groups of players, everyone with different likes and dislikes. This one in particular asked me to try RM.
  I agreed (so to try RMC  ) and decided to start a mini-adventure with high level PC. They also like very "gritty" RPGs, so removing level bonuses is the more efficient way to accomplish this type of game (imho).
• To me this is reminiscent of some sort of THAC0... and is something that isn't well integrated in the DP cost of the system.

[Arioch]

They also like very "gritty" RPGs, so removing level bonuses is the more efficient way to accomplish this type of game (imho).

IMHO removing level bonuses will not make the game grittier, only PC inept at doing what they should do...
What about using fixed bonuses, like those in RMFRP?

[vroomfogle]

There are some good reasons for removing the Profession bonuses....it is a tad redundant with the DP cost structure and is really only there to ensure archetypes in the system.

I personally use a greatly toned down profession bonus system - fixed bonuses like in RMSS but only in a few categories and only +5 or +10, nothing higher.   This helps give a small bonus at low levels which is I think is required, but at higher levels this would become unnecessary.

Good luck!

[giulio.trimarco]

...

I don't see how they will be inept.